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Post by Tangelag on Dec 9, 2016 1:23:11 GMT -5
I honestly can not imagine them wrapping all the story lines up in two episodes!
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Post by loveloulabel on Dec 9, 2016 3:14:10 GMT -5
loveloulabel- there are limits. Maybe Spanish shows don't normally run 4 seasons, but the Cristina storyline should have probably been wrapped up in early S3. She served her purpose and it was time for the show to move on. The show could have brought on another antagonist who didn't necessarily cause trouble between Ana and Alberto, but maybe with other characters or the store. There were many ways to take Ana and they picked the tired plot of Cristina. I'm sorry, but it's a travesty we never got to see at least a few episodes of A/A together in an angst free relationship. How is that satisfying? I find it incredibly frustrating. Hopeless- Ana wasn't blameless either. She pushed him into it. Either way, once in the marriage Cristina was unbearable and wanted to control Alberto's entire life I agree fully Lara. I am completely unsatisfied to be honest. I needed at least 3 or more episodes of A/A and Alberto finding his way into this life with a son. With Mateo again. Settling into something. I have wanted Enrique, Marco, Patricia and certainly Christina and Carlos gone for a while but there was no clear definition of their roles so they simply stayed and dragged the drama on. I cannot see Carlos gone so easily and perhaps he will cause trouble yet but certainly 2 episodes is insufficient to tie everything up and still allow us the pleasure of A/A and M/C while taking down the annoying ones. Where is my Raul who I hoped would move forward much much more. With Humberto. With his designing. Let's see my frustration wrapped up in 2 episodes. Christina will then be the least of my worries 😂😂😂
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Dec 9, 2016 8:58:39 GMT -5
Primisoars you said that the show should be of "love" not "hate" which is interesting because it's the direct opposite. I wonder if MAS hadn't left, would the show have turned out differently? Would we have seen in S3 a more balanced continuation of Ana and Alberto together, happily moving on with their careers and their love, occasionally sidestepping the manipulations of Christina, but in the end they overcome all obstacles? What a concept!!
I accepted S3 midway, ONLY because I knew MAS was leaving and the writers had to rewrite the story to include MAS's leaving and designed it in the way we are seeing it now. The reason Ana gave for why she was ending their relationship seemed so incomplete to me, didn't make sense, but I accepted it because I knew the writers had to end the relationship so MAS could exit the story. I wonder what they had in mind before his departure? It's unfortunate to have such a popular and charismatic main protagonist leave a show so abruptly as MAS did, and the consequence of the story becomes a muddy showdown between Ana and Christina. I could have accepted Christina a lot more easily if Ana and Alberto had more, on balance, more scenes together like the for example the drive in, that their time in Paris wasn't interrupted, more picnicks on the terrace, dining with Clara and Mateo, to show strength in their relationships. That's what hurt the show, really, not having the happy ever after. I guess the writers couldn't aspire to a more loftier proposition. Add to the murky waters everyone had to be against Ana: Marco, Enrique, and Carlos. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when they first created Velvet as I suspect it may all have turned out differently if MAS had not left.
I don't know really what will happen to all of us after Velvet ends. I know personally, I've enjoyed Velvet for all it's faults, and I've enjoyed every writer on this blog for commisserating with me, those in favor and those that argued against what we most liked and disliked about the show. I've learned so much of the spanish language, the customs, Spain and those that live there. Velvet bridged continents to discuss Velvet. That's pretty awesome in my mind!!
I hope Velvet ends on a high note, and I hope Christina get's the comeuppance that's due her, but I will miss these characters that I have becme obsessed with, the writers that I share opinions with on a daily basis. It's been wonderful. Thank you all!!
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Post by Camille on Dec 9, 2016 13:00:30 GMT -5
Alfi said, swap Cristina for Ana, and in that situation repeat what you said and you will understand why Alberto was a total asshole with Cristina. Swap the Club, Enrique and Barbara by Velvet dorms, Pedro and Rita. Alberto used Cristina, you can't justify his behaviour because he was unhappy in his marriage.
Camille said, I know I wasn't in on this conversation but I am going to make couple points, my take on this. Swamp Ana for Christina and see why Alberto would not be annoyed with Ana. She is not the smothering type, she does not look her noise down on people, she is not one sided when it comes to Alberto's family but understands his pain, she is not pushy or controlling, will never not welcome his biological mother into her home and is only caring of others; not selfish in any way. The real culprit is Geraldo who pretended to be a family friend, offered his help and when his Alberto went to him for help Grealdo used that opportunity to buy his daughter a husband. They all used each other including Christina. When she found out the truth instead of walking away she plotted, lied to keep Alberto. Alberto was wrong, admitted he was wrong and apologized for his part and rightfully so got out of a relationship that was sucking the life out of him. Both A/A have paid the price two-fold for using Christina and now it's time for her to pay for her wrongs. The revenge that Christina took out on A/A has been paid in full by all the pain and anguish she caused them. Alfi, you yourself spoke of forgiveness; when is enough, enough. Christina needs to forgive and take her tired antics to the devil and let that couple have some peace.
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alfi
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Post by alfi on Dec 9, 2016 14:04:16 GMT -5
Camille, imagine for a moment that Cristina was not so self centered, imagine she was more like LucÃa, Esteban's daughter, and she was used by Alberto to pay his debts. Would Alberto have betrayed a girl like Lucia? would you still argue that dumping LucÃa was right because he loved Ana? In an american show they would probably went for this kind of moral dilemma, would Alberto choose LucÃa, the rich girl who belongs to his social circle, who he used at first to save his business and many people jobs, or Ana, the girl he grew with. This is not a forbidden love story though. Cristina is a character designed to be between Alberto and Ana while people side with them and hate her because her antics, without Cristina there is not main Velvet's theme, which is Alberto and Ana not being together.
When i praise Cristina i praise a well done evil queen, so well done that a lot of people sided with her in the first two seasons, even if the show hinted us many times that Cristina was not the sweet good girl she pretended to be. Asking for more Alberto and Ana having a good time together is like eating the whole bar of chocolate at once, you are not going to like the chocolate more, some people will even hate it. It's way more tasty and you will enjoy the chocolate a lot more if you space and eat 1 piece a day. Now give that bar to your couples and ask them to give you 1 piece once in a while, and surprising you, telling them to not give you any chocolate if you ask for more, not matter what you tell them, even threats, that is what Spanish shows with forbidden love themes are about.
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Post by primusoars on Dec 9, 2016 15:56:25 GMT -5
Camille, imagine for a moment that Cristina was not so self centered, imagine she was more like LucÃa, Esteban's daughter, and she was used by Alberto to pay his debts. Would Alberto have betrayed a girl like Lucia? would you still argue that dumping LucÃa was right because he loved Ana? In an american show they would probably went for this kind of moral dilemma, would Alberto choose LucÃa, the rich girl who belongs to his social circle, who he used at first to save his business and many people jobs, or Ana, the girl he grew with. This is not a forbidden love story though. Cristina is a character designed to be between Alberto and Ana while people side with them and hate her because her antics, without Cristina there is not main Velvet's theme, which is Alberto and Ana not being together. When i praise Cristina i praise a well done evil queen, so well done that a lot of people sided with her in the first two seasons, even if the show hinted us many times that Cristina was not the sweet good girl she pretended to be. Asking for more Alberto and Ana having a good time together is like eating the whole bar of chocolate at once, you are not going to like the chocolate more, some people will even hate it. It's way more tasty and you will enjoy the chocolate a lot more if you space and eat 1 piece a day. Now give that bar to your couples and ask them to give you 1 piece once in a while, and surprising you, telling them to not give you any chocolate if you ask for more, not matter what you tell them, even threats, that is what Spanish shows with forbidden love themes are about. I don't think Alfi gets what I mean. Yes the S1 and S2 Cristina played well that's why lots people sided with her like you said it. S3 and S4 was overdone with Cristina , most of the audiences are tire of her if you are being fed day after day the same dish by the end of the week you want to eat something different to be satisfied. I don't care if you are America, Canadian or Spanish. The desire to be satisfied is the same. What the writers screw up were doing a sloppy job ( according to you it is because this is what Spanish TV stories are like) in setting up the storylines according to me and others. Cristina is a antagonist OK I accept that but don't you think the writer can use some other antagonist instead? The main point is the audience needs something different , something fresher, something more challenging, something that's not recycled over and over over over..... Or give us more happy times of Alberto , Ana and Alberto Jr. We certainly are hunger for that. I am not argue about we need an antagonist , I am argue for a different one. Since the writer knew MAS will be gone for a while, to me it is a great opportunity to do something different and challenging us too, but they choose Cristina and do it again and again again. So if this is what the writer wants the audiences to experience ( eating the same dish again and again) in the end we are so craved for something different may be giving us more A/A 's happy life together with Alberto Jr. Our month are watering for that. Switch the chocolate bar, Cristina is the chocolate bar! We don't like it ! Is too much! 4 season of the chocolate bar I am sick of it !
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Post by primusoars on Dec 9, 2016 15:56:40 GMT -5
Camille, imagine for a moment that Cristina was not so self centered, imagine she was more like LucÃa, Esteban's daughter, and she was used by Alberto to pay his debts. Would Alberto have betrayed a girl like Lucia? would you still argue that dumping LucÃa was right because he loved Ana? In an american show they would probably went for this kind of moral dilemma, would Alberto choose LucÃa, the rich girl who belongs to his social circle, who he used at first to save his business and many people jobs, or Ana, the girl he grew with. This is not a forbidden love story though. Cristina is a character designed to be between Alberto and Ana while people side with them and hate her because her antics, without Cristina there is not main Velvet's theme, which is Alberto and Ana not being together. When i praise Cristina i praise a well done evil queen, so well done that a lot of people sided with her in the first two seasons, even if the show hinted us many times that Cristina was not the sweet good girl she pretended to be. Asking for more Alberto and Ana having a good time together is like eating the whole bar of chocolate at once, you are not going to like the chocolate more, some people will even hate it. It's way more tasty and you will enjoy the chocolate a lot more if you space and eat 1 piece a day. Now give that bar to your couples and ask them to give you 1 piece once in a while, and surprising you, telling them to not give you any chocolate if you ask for more, not matter what you tell them, even threats, that is what Spanish shows with forbidden love themes are about. I don't think Alfi gets what I mean. Yes the S1 and S2 Cristina played well that's why lots people sided with her like you said it. S3 and S4 was overdone with Cristina , most of the audiences are tire of her if you are being fed day after day the same dish by the end of the week you want to eat something different to be satisfied. I don't care if you are America, Canadian or Spanish. The desire to be satisfied is the same. What the writers screw up were doing a sloppy job ( according to you it is because this is what Spanish TV stories are like) in setting up the storylines according to me and others. Cristina is a antagonist OK I accept that but don't you think the writer can use some other antagonist instead? The main point is the audience needs something different , something fresher, something more challenging, something that's not recycled over and over over over..... Or give us more happy times of Alberto , Ana and Alberto Jr. We certainly are hunger for that. I am not argue about we need an antagonist , I am argue for a different one. Since the writer knew MAS will be gone for a while, to me it is a great opportunity to do something different and challenging us too, but they choose Cristina and do it again and again again. So if this is what the writer wants the audiences to experience ( eating the same dish again and again) in the end we are so craved for something different may be giving us more A/A 's happy life together with Alberto Jr. Our month are watering for that. Switch the chocolate bar, Cristina is the chocolate bar! We don't like it ! Is too much! 4 season of the chocolate bar I am sick of it !
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Post by Lara on Dec 9, 2016 17:27:25 GMT -5
loveloulabel- there are limits. Maybe Spanish shows don't normally run 4 seasons, but the Cristina storyline should have probably been wrapped up in early S3. She served her purpose and it was time for the show to move on. The show could have brought on another antagonist who didn't necessarily cause trouble between Ana and Alberto, but maybe with other characters or the store. There were many ways to take Ana and they picked the tired plot of Cristina. I'm sorry, but it's a travesty we never got to see at least a few episodes of A/A together in an angst free relationship. How is that satisfying? I find it incredibly frustrating. Hopeless- Ana wasn't blameless either. She pushed him into it. Either way, once in the marriage Cristina was unbearable and wanted to control Alberto's entire life I agree fully Lara. I am completely unsatisfied to be honest. I needed at least 3 or more episodes of A/A and Alberto finding his way into this life with a son. With Mateo again. Settling into something. I have wanted Enrique, Marco, Patricia and certainly Christina and Carlos gone for a while but there was no clear definition of their roles so they simply stayed and dragged the drama on. I cannot see Carlos gone so easily and perhaps he will cause trouble yet but certainly 2 episodes is insufficient to tie everything up and still allow us the pleasure of A/A and M/C while taking down the annoying ones. Where is my Raul who I hoped would move forward much much more. With Humberto. With his designing. Let's see my frustration wrapped up in 2 episodes. Christina will then be the least of my worries 😂😂😂 Yeah, that's why I was completely stunned we didn't get more couple moments in S3, if they knew that MAS filming for S4 would be severely limited. I mean he was a complete bore for 4-5 eps in S3 with the sulking around, is that the best they could have done? Since they didn't show us much of A/A in S3, then they owed us a few eps now of happy times with Ana and their son. Every couple has gotten that, except the main protagonists! All those characters you mentioned they had no clue what to do with. I think Cristina is more the aggressor in trying to keep A/A apart than Carlos at this point. I think she will use him to further her agenda. 2 episodes, even with the live tag on, is really not enough. They will gloss over a lot of stuff I think. Raul was such a missed opportunity. Right when he and Humberto could take it to the next level, he left! I would rather have seen Humberto coming to terms with his homosexuality earlier, or better yet, just have been closeted, and him and Raul falling for each other sooner. Raul is such a great character that I wish they would have done more with him.
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Post by loveloulabel on Dec 9, 2016 18:25:50 GMT -5
I agree fully Lara. I am completely unsatisfied to be honest. I needed at least 3 or more episodes of A/A and Alberto finding his way into this life with a son. With Mateo again. Settling into something. I have wanted Enrique, Marco, Patricia and certainly Christina and Carlos gone for a while but there was no clear definition of their roles so they simply stayed and dragged the drama on. I cannot see Carlos gone so easily and perhaps he will cause trouble yet but certainly 2 episodes is insufficient to tie everything up and still allow us the pleasure of A/A and M/C while taking down the annoying ones. Where is my Raul who I hoped would move forward much much more. With Humberto. With his designing. Let's see my frustration wrapped up in 2 episodes. Christina will then be the least of my worries 😂😂😂 Yeah, that's why I was completely stunned we didn't get more couple moments in S3, if they knew that MAS filming for S4 would be severely limited. I mean he was a complete bore for 4-5 eps in S3 with the sulking around, is that the best they could have done? Since they didn't show us much of A/A in S3, then they owed us a few eps now of happy times with Ana and their son. Every couple has gotten that, except the main protagonists! All those characters you mentioned they had no clue what to do with. I think Cristina is more the aggressor in trying to keep A/A apart than Carlos at this point. I think she will use him to further her agenda. 2 episodes, even with the live tag on, is really not enough. They will gloss over a lot of stuff I think. Raul was such a missed opportunity. Right when he and Humberto could take it to the next level, he left! I would rather have seen Humberto coming to terms with his homosexuality earlier, or better yet, just have been closeted, and him and Raul falling for each other sooner. Raul is such a great character that I wish they would have done more with him. Yes I couldn't agree more Lara! R/H were giving us that additional romance that was missing but we really needed. Same for M/C. They could at least have given us those romances. Less Christina, more other couples. Would have worked and given the audience that feel good factor that most of us seek in watching. Any show we watch, there are always going to be alternatives and audiences will differ in why they watch and what they want. But this season has surely missed the mark because I've never seen a show where I felt so much was missing. I know MAS bring absent was integral but still could have given us other storyline. I'm so sad to see it end with so much up in the air. We need another season.
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Post by dalovelee on Dec 9, 2016 20:08:17 GMT -5
OMG! Is it true that in 13 days is the FINAL episode!? I feel like I was conned. This means MAS was only going to be in Velvet season 4 for one Episode afterall?! I was sure we were going to get at least two or three episodes with Alberto...We were tricked!!! How in the world? I mean in one hour (which cannot focus solely on Ana and Alberto's reunion. Plus him finding out about Alberto Jr. Then there are the other characters....My head can not wrap itself around the fact we only have one episode left. MAS will be in 2 episodes dalovelee, the reunion will be at the end of the 10th this Wednesday, in the 11th they will close story lines and give us the epilogue (filmed in real time it seems). I thought he was was going to be shown before, to make his presence more felt in the show. That he couldn't film many scenes in just a couple of weeks was already known though and they finally choose to focus his scenes in the last two episodes. Filmed in real time..as if in a staged play?!
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Post by Camille on Dec 10, 2016 1:14:22 GMT -5
Camille, imagine for a moment that Cristina was not so self centered, imagine she was more like LucÃa, Esteban's daughter, and she was used by Alberto to pay his debts. Would Alberto have betrayed a girl like Lucia? would you still argue that dumping LucÃa was right because he loved Ana? In an american show they would probably went for this kind of moral dilemma, would Alberto choose LucÃa, the rich girl who belongs to his social circle, who he used at first to save his business and many people jobs, or Ana, the girl he grew with. This is not a forbidden love story though. Cristina is a character designed to be between Alberto and Ana while people side with them and hate her because her antics, without Cristina there is not main Velvet's theme, which is Alberto and Ana not being together. When i praise Cristina i praise a well done evil queen, so well done that a lot of people sided with her in the first two seasons, even if the show hinted us many times that Cristina was not the sweet good girl she pretended to be. Asking for more Alberto and Ana having a good time together is like eating the whole bar of chocolate at once, you are not going to like the chocolate more, some people will even hate it. It's way more tasty and you will enjoy the chocolate a lot more if you space and eat 1 piece a day. Now give that bar to your couples and ask them to give you 1 piece once in a while, and surprising you, telling them to not give you any chocolate if you ask for more, not matter what you tell them, even threats, that is what Spanish shows with forbidden love themes are about. I don't think Alfi gets what I mean. Yes the S1 and S2 Cristina played well that's why lots people sided with her like you said it. S3 and S4 was overdone with Cristina , most of the audiences are tire of her if you are being fed day after day the same dish by the end of the week you want to eat something different to be satisfied. I don't care if you are America, Canadian or Spanish. The desire to be satisfied is the same. What the writers screw up were doing a sloppy job ( according to you it is because this is what Spanish TV stories are like) in setting up the storylines according to me and others. Cristina is a antagonist OK I accept that but don't you think the writer can use some other antagonist instead? The main point is the audience needs something different , something fresher, something more challenging, something that's not recycled over and over over over..... Or give us more happy times of Alberto , Ana and Alberto Jr. We certainly are hunger for that. I am not argue about we need an antagonist , I am argue for a different one. Since the writer knew MAS will be gone for a while, to me it is a great opportunity to do something different and challenging us too, but they choose Cristina and do it again and again again. So if this is what the writer wants the audiences to experience ( eating the same dish again and again) in the end we are so craved for something different may be giving us more A/A 's happy life together with Alberto Jr. Our month are watering for that. Switch the chocolate bar, Cristina is the chocolate bar! We don't like it ! Is too much! 4 season of the chocolate bar I am sick of it ! Alfi, Primusoars explained it perfectly.👌
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Post by primusoars on Dec 10, 2016 11:59:38 GMT -5
I don't think Alfi gets what I mean. Yes the S1 and S2 Cristina played well that's why lots people sided with her like you said it. S3 and S4 was overdone with Cristina , most of the audiences are tire of her if you are being fed day after day the same dish by the end of the week you want to eat something different to be satisfied. I don't care if you are America, Canadian or Spanish. The desire to be satisfied is the same. What the writers screw up were doing a sloppy job ( according to you it is because this is what Spanish TV stories are like) in setting up the storylines according to me and others. Cristina is a antagonist OK I accept that but don't you think the writer can use some other antagonist instead? The main point is the audience needs something different , something fresher, something more challenging, something that's not recycled over and over over over..... Or give us more happy times of Alberto , Ana and Alberto Jr. We certainly are hunger for that. I am not argue about we need an antagonist , I am argue for a different one. Since the writer knew MAS will be gone for a while, to me it is a great opportunity to do something different and challenging us too, but they choose Cristina and do it again and again again. So if this is what the writer wants the audiences to experience ( eating the same dish again and again) in the end we are so craved for something different may be giving us more A/A 's happy life together with Alberto Jr. Our month are watering for that. Switch the chocolate bar, Cristina is the chocolate bar! We don't like it ! Is too much! 4 season of the chocolate bar I am sick of it ! Alfi, Primusoars explained it perfectly.👌 I don't think HE understand what I mean. He is not the writer for the show so no matter what he says about the intend of the character my complain remains "Cristina's character remain overdrawn, overused, unchallenged, and vintaged". They should try to use some other antagonist to replace her story. My opinion had nothing to do with her as an actor or the tradition of the Spanish Television show. What I expressed was Cristina's storyline could be replace by some other storyline to take the show to a different level.
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alfi
Full Member
Posts: 171
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Post by alfi on Dec 10, 2016 12:14:30 GMT -5
Yep, her point of view that i already know. If you read FB fans who complain about the show now, they are always the same, those who watch the show because MAS was in it. I can understand they feel a little bit cheated, although the producers never hide that MAS filming schedule with Velvet was very short, but the show lost about 1 million viewers in S3 with MAS, and without him they recovered half a millions of viewers, not only that, a lot of people like me feel they needed more, 11 episodes were very few. Moreover, not only one of those complaining fans say they want Cristina out of the show, not one, indeed MV is always praised while PE is very criticized by some people*.
In Spain like everywhere in Europe we grow watching american tv series of all kind, my favourite show of all time is a dubbed into Spanish "Friends" for example, while you in the States were, and still are, almost totally unaware of what it's done in different European countries (this is not a critic, i have no clue as well what shows in France or Germany are about). In fact, only thanks to Netflix and to the growing spanish market in USA they try to attract, you got to know about spanish shows. This is my subjective point of view: when i read her i think that what she is asking for is to change the core of what she is watching by something more pleasing for an american viewer, but doing so what she is actually asking for is a Snow White story without the Evil Queen in the middle of the tale substituting her by another evil character, while also giving Snow White more love interests because her true love only appears at the end of the story.
I tried by all means to explain the different concepts of the "Spanish Romeo and Juliet" stories, but that's impossible to do in a couple of paragraphs, I have not the knowledge to fully explain why their Manichean plots are so addictive: they focus in true love and friendship, very universal concepts. Friendship is always a given, true love with a good ending finale is not though, a lot of times one of or both of the lovers die.
*Edit: and this is terrible unfair, Ana character is not an easy one, for me it's the most difficult by far.
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Post by primusoars on Dec 10, 2016 13:15:22 GMT -5
Yep, her point of view that i already know. If you read FB fans who complain about the show now, they are always the same, those who watch the show because MAS was in it. I can understand they feel a little bit cheated, although the producers never hide that MAS filming schedule with Velvet was very short, but the show lost about 1 million viewers in S3 with MAS, and without him they recovered half a millions of viewers, not only that, a lot of people like me feel they needed more, 11 episodes were very few. Moreover, not only one of those complaining fans say they want Cristina out of the show, not one, indeed MV is always praised while PE is very criticized by some people. In Spain like everywhere in Europe we grow watching american tv series of all kind, my favourite show of all time is a dubbed into Spanish "Friends" for example, while you in the States were, and still are, almost totally unaware of what it's done in different European countries (this is not a critic, i have no clue as well what shows in France or Germany are about). In fact, only thanks to Netflix and to the growing spanish market in USA they try to attract, you got to know about spanish shows. This is my subjective point of view: when i read her i think that what she is asking for is to change the core of what she is watching by something more pleasing for an american viewer, but doing so what she is actually asking for is a Snow White story without the Evil Queen in the middle of the tale substituting her by another evil character, while also giving Snow White more love interests because her true love only appears at the end of the story. I tried by all means to explain the different concepts of the "Spanish Romeo and Juliet" stories, but that's impossible to do in a couple of paragraphs, I have not the knowledge to fully explain why their Manichean plots are so addictive: they focus in true love and friendship, very universal concepts. Friendship is always a given, true love with a good ending finale is not though, a lot of times one of or both of the lovers die. Alfi; do not interpret what I wrote if you truly not understand it. I don't try to interpret what you write on this blog only when you over and over again doing the same thing about mine . Like I said before " you don't understand it" and you still don't so please don't keep on beating the dead horse. End of the conversation with you.
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Post by Kathryn on Dec 10, 2016 13:20:10 GMT -5
Hi, I'm so anxious for next episode. Wonder when 4:10 episode will be showing?
My best!
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