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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 25, 2016 22:11:55 GMT -5
I totally understand he picked up a job elsewhere..BUT if the actor is your lead character in your hit show and is central to the plot..of the series, uh that is priority. (I'm just thinking in the USA/UK) imagine on a hit show like The Big Bang Theory and the guy who plays Sheldon Cooper booking another gig. Of course the producers would be happy for him, but his contract means he's got to be available for TBBT as priority. This is not so much as MAS fault but the producers. The producers messed up they should have locked him down for season 4..or maybe the incentives they offered him wasn't enough to keep him.
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 25, 2016 22:24:56 GMT -5
So I watched the episode again, and I wanted to fix a few of my translations. Oh yeah, and Cristina just says that if Pedro and Jonas don't do their jobs quickly she'll fire them--she doesn't explicitly say "next time." Also, Manolito is definitely in Germany. Don Emilio is also sure that he's the only one to project Ana's picture during the fashion show, because he doesn't want Pedro (or anyone else) to put their job at risk. There's a lot of eye contact between Marco and Don Emilio, so I think it's pretty clear Marco knows who's responsible for the public reminder of Ana's involvement. Pedro does say, though, that he's in the same boat, and earlier Dona Blanca says if Don Emilio won't cooperate in staging the show then she won't either, but he convinces her to help Cristina choose the best dresses to make Ana look good. I think they're setting it up so that when Ana leaves (and probably Don Emilio gets fired, or maybe quits, but his firing might be the thing that pushes Ana over the edge), some employees might quit alongside him while others might stay (and maybe act as moles of some sort?). I'd guess Blanca leaves, Pedro and Rita stay (for economic reasons, probably), Jonas prepares for Paris, Clara might play spy, Raul...well, I guess he's done with the menswear collection anyway. I don't know. All this is supposition, of course. Oh also, this is kind of an answer to some questions that have been floating around for weeks: when Marco is losing his shit after Ana wins her award, Enrique says who really cares, what's good for Ana is good for Velvet, and money is money wherever it comes from, so Marco should just calm down. When Marco goes storming out, Enrique stays behind sipping his whiskey with the most amazing expression on his face. Finally, someone is playing an actual businessman. And however despicable Enrique is (and he is!), I can't help but love him in this moment. Marco then, of course, goes to Cristina where they work on their personal vendetta against Ana. At the point later in the episode when Marco says he sees he's not the only enemy Ana has at Velvet, something kind of clicked for me in making his character's motivation have more rationality and consistency: he has been developed this season to be the male Cristina. His arc is the same as her's in season 3. Just as she showed up as the evil witch in S3E1, so did Marco burst on to the scene as the bad guy. They have a lot in common: despite what Marco said last season (about Ana being more valuable because she earned her place on her own merits, while Cristina's just her daddy's girl), they both actually are where they are because of their fathers (I know someone mentioned this a while ago). They both are both extremely entitled--used to being the king of the hill/belle of the ball because of their social position, family's power, and the ability each has developed to manipulate people around them to get what they want. The bully and the mean girl, two peas in a pod. But neither has succeeded in stopping Ana from taking what they themselves want. She's gotten what they think they deserve (or really, what is due to them). In Cristina's case, Alberto primarily of course, but also the sympathy of Raul, etc. I think part of her hatred is the idea that someone could love Ana instead of her. For Marco, it's that Ana is actually making better decisions, that she's earned his father's respect over him, that she's being recognized in his place as the brains behind Velvet's savvy business moves. For both of them when they've been at their most upset, they way they've represented their feelings is in large part about appearances--remember Cristina kept on saying to Albert "you've humiliated me"? Meaning, you're making me look bad. (I think, also, you've hurt my pride--she also says you're throwing away your life for that seamstress.) And Marco this episode says I'll show everyone who's really the leader of Velvet (or something like that). He wants recognition of others. The fact that Ana--"just" a seamstress and "just" a woman--has proven invincible to either of them has now pushed them both totally off the deep end. Marco has spent episodes shooting himself in the foot by trying to stop the ready-to-wear line, and I doubt he has his dad's permission for much of anything he's doing now. I suspect that when Enzo Cafiero finds out about most of what Marco is doing he's going to jerked back to Italy asap, if not actually get the boot. And Cristina, ayy. She was legit crazy again in this episode--caressing the pictures of wedding dresses, grilling Carlos about how he wanted Ana's makeup done (seriously, wtf?), throwing temper tantrums left and right, and those eyes! Ladyfromcanada you are so right about that abyss of madness. But Marco wasn't far off--his eyes and smile were almost as deranged as hers. Am I crazy myself for finding these wild, over-the-top versions more fun than the drier, drearier plotting Marco and Cristina, however much more "real" they probably were? Wow I have enjoyed reading this thread..lots of good points about cristina. .but Marco his behavior baffles me..how did he go from Ana is valuable to plotting against her.Jealousy is a dangerous thing..both cristina,and Marco wear it well.That's why I miss Alberto he pushed Ana's career forward and protected her..Remember cristina confrontation with Ana in front of Alberto he wasn't having none of it..he shut cristina down real quick.Cristina tried it but Alberto brutally stopped her.Its either they are undermining her or trying to steal her thunder. ..or take credit for her hardwork.
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Post by Lara on Nov 25, 2016 22:44:19 GMT -5
I'm sad Mateo got fired only because I'm tired of Ana getting these men to do anything at their own great personal sacrifice. She wins, they lose. At this point, I do feel Ana shares some similarities with Cristina and Marco. Ana is absolutely a hard worker, Cristina is not, but Ana has been handed things too. For some reason she has never seemed that motivated. She was described as tenacious, but it never showed on screen in my opinion. Phillipe Ray came about because of Don Emilio. Her entire design career from there was due to Alberto giving her the opportunities. She would have returned to being a seamstress after Airsa if he didn't keep her on and talk her into the collaboration with Raul. In fact he talked her into Airsa too! This time she needed Mateo to help and and he ended up losing his job. I know he Mateo will move onto better things 😉 But I wanted to see a more independent Ana this season who doesn't always need saving, usually from a man. Instead they made her worse. She won't even stop a wedding she knows is wrong to go through with. The writers really are unimaginative, so I agree Marco is probably the male Cristina, same as Carlos. Ooh, I really disagree about this, guys. Anyone who has achieved any sort of success has had some break along the way (e.g., for an actor, the chance to audition, for an author, a chance to submit their manuscript to an editor, for a start-up, the chance to pitch their idea to an investor, etc). Don Emilio called Dona Aurorita, sure, but what I remember is that when Ana walked in she immediately said it didn't matter who her uncle was, she never took dresses from seamstresses. Ana opened her dress bag anyway, and when Dona Aurorita saw the dress she changed her mind and said she'd keep the it for a one week trial period but only continue carrying her work in the store if it sold really well. And it did, it sold twice that day, so Ana had to make them overnight, after a full day of work and before the next. Sure, her uncle steered her to Dona Aurorita, but basically the only help he provided was the name of a shop that would give her a chance. She succeeded as Philippe Ray--and she really built a name for herself that had Madrid buzzing (remember, Raul and Mateo knew Philippe Ray; Valentin said that was his sister's favorite designer; Sara Ortega wanted to know who he was)--because people bought her designs or when they saw them in magazines they liked them. In terms of her tenacity, she--along with Rita and Luisa and eventually Jonas, of course--seemed to be making something like 10 dresses a week. To make more than a dress by hand, every day, for months on end, in addition to full time work, shopping for materials, delivering the dresses, and coming up with new designs, etc is a ton of work. (Also, Ana (or at least one of them) realized that Luisa wearing the dress for the St. Valentine's Day radio event would be good publicity, which was savvy marketing.) I see that as Ana taking advantage of the tiniest crumb of an opportunity and working very hard to become a known designer against the odds in a pretty short amount of time. As for the Airsa uniforms, Alberto had only TWO DAYS to get a designer to come up with a proposal for the meeting, so he needed Ana more than she needed him. (Before Enrique sprang this deadline on him, Alberto had a list of ideas for other designers but knew none of them would consider working under those conditions.) Moreover, the reason that he thought of her at all is that he believed in Ana's talent--remember, technically he gave everyone in the taller a chance to design the uniforms, and both he and Mateo thought all the other sketches were terrible. It's true he pushed her to do it when she didn't want to at first, but her hesitation doesn't seem like something that should be held against her ambition since Ana told her uncle she was afraid Alberto was giving her the job because of their relationship. When Emilio told her that she was the one mixing feelings with work, she decided to submit her drawing(s) precisely because it was such a good opportunity for her as a designer, one should couldn't pass up even though she was so reluctant to work with him. And regardless of what Alberto thought, they wouldn't have sealed the deal with Airsa if Sara Ortega and her father--two very demanding, impartial parties--didn't believe in her designs. In fact, they almost lost the contract when Ana changed her design at Enrique and that crazy-designer-in-the-wheelchair-who-could-walk-whose-name-I-forget's "request." So sure, the Airsa opportunity was a bit of a lucky break, but one that Enrique precipitated as well as Alberto, and most importantly: it doesn't matter if you get an audition if you don't have the goods. Her success was far from guaranteed--in fact, Enrique was working as hard as possible to be sure that the project would fail. (Also, the chance to submit designs for the contract was a lucky break for Velvet--it brought it some much needed cash flow--and while Enrique took credit for bringing the opportunity in, I think there's at least a chance that Carlos just pulled the strings for Enrique so he had an excuse to hang around Velvet, so this could kind of be a case of Ana making her own luck.) Ana had no choice but to go back to being a seamstress after designing the Airsa uniforms. (I mean, unless she wanted to quit.) She was an employee of the gallery at that point--and hadn't been given a promotion despite her work on Airsa--though she did continue selling her dresses to Dona Aurorita. (It was after the total failure of her half of the de la Riva/Ray collection that she tried to demote herself.) But in terms of Alberto "giving" her the job working with Raul, sure, but he also "gave" Raul the job working with Ana. As director, he hired designers. Plus, he hired her because of the fact that she'd already become the hot new thing as Philippe Ray, and because she could motivate and work with Raul under pressure to come out a new collection asap. (If anything, by not having her do a solo collection Alberto either hedged his bets or showed less confidence in her than he had in Raul.) Everyone, including the many who didn't know Philippe Ray was Ana, thought securing that contract with "him" for Velvet was a great move. Strongly believing in her talent is not only a personal issue, it makes fundamental professional sense: it should be at the core of their director-designer relationship. Trusting in any particular designer's talent and giving her an opportunity to prove herself (as Ana eventually did with bells on), was Alberto's job as the head of a design house. That dynamic certainly is true of Alberto and Raul's, and later Enzo and Raul's and Enzo and Ana's, relationship. Alberto basically bet Velvet on Raul's first collection, which almost drove it into bankruptcy again. Alberto believed in Ana for very legitimate reasons that she had already demonstrated (i.e., Airsa and Philippe Ray to that point) and she had already built a fanbase of clients and earned the attention of the press. And Alberto soothed both Ana and Raul's feathers about the Oteguis, whether it was Ana when tempted to quit after Cristina became her (indirect) boss or Raul when he had a conflict with Enrique or actually did officially resign. As I see it, his sensitive-artist-handling wasn't dramatically different (other than of course for the reasons the Oteguis were against each, and the exact way Alberto talked to them). As for Ana's work on the joint collection, during the runway show itself the audience clearly loved her dresses just as much as Raul's. It was just the newspaper story that led to its failure, and I personally can excuse Ana for temporarily becoming extremely depressed and (at least temporarily) ready to give up after: 1. total public humiliation at her very first show, something she had dreamed about all her life (in addition to the personal embarrassment of having a very one-sided version of her love life published in the newspaper), 2. the complete failure of her collection (no one bought even a single dress!), particularly when she had worked at the Galerias all her life and had come to see sales as a sign of the success of a designer's work, and 3. the feeling that she had given up everything in her life (which, well, I guess was just Alberto?) for her career and now that she failed she was left with nothing. I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed either. (Remember Raul was ready to give up--he gave up--too after Oxford stole his whole collection and he had to start over again from zero. That seemed understandable enough at the time!) Reinforcing the fact that Ana deserved the success she eventually gained, and it wasn't handed to her unfairly, Philippe Ray was the big prize for Cafiero. Alberto played poker to convince Enzo to sell the earlier collections internationally, but when Alberto called a second time Enzo knew all about Ana/Philippe; he wanted to work with her because he thought she'd be the next Coco Chanel and he wanted her to design for his stores in different cities, etc. Sure, that's an opportunity, but one that, once again, she absolutely earned. Yeah, the reason Alberto called was entangled in his feelings for Ana and his desire to reanimate her belief in herself as a designer, but it was also because of the personal that she had ever failed in the first place. (Obviously it wasn't only Alberto's fault that Cristina was Ana's enemy, but C was the source of that front page scandal story of Ana/Philippe Ray the day Alberto annulled their marriage.) Plus, trying to sell Ana's line outside of Spain made more money for Velvet: it was a personal thing, but it also was (as they had joked about as kids, which gave him the idea), him acting as her Italian (business) representative, which is what Velvet's director should do. And as an aside: Alberto never tried to negotiate the terms of his second deal with Enzo--at that point, he was ready to leave, so selling Velvet was a tempting offer when it fell into his lap. I'm not sure Lara if you are also referring to Alberto as one of the men who made a sacrifice for Ana? His letter from Istanbul makes it pretty clear he needs to find himself again to be able to be happy, and that wasn't going to happen at Velvet. So it doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice--he's also got what he needed, no matter how hard it was to say goodbye. Mateo did stick his neck out for Ana, and he did lose his job over it, but she helped him get back into Velvet, with Alberto's old office (taking it out from under Marco), with double his previous salary, and the complete freedom to work both jobs (until he was fired). He made the choice to sacrifice something to help out a friend, but it's not like she's never done anything for him. This season as the old gang gets back together (aka the friendships among all the 'good guys' re-form/tighten as they grow closer again), the writers are definitely showing how important loyalty and friendship are and how Ana is still part of the Velvet "family" that she grew up as a part of downstairs despite her success, a family that used to include Alberto, upstairs, in its periphery and now includes Mateo. Mateo and Ana have developed such a beautiful friendship this season. It's one of my favorite parts--if they'd only get stinking drunk together it might fill in a little more of the Mateo-Alberto shaped hole in my heart. In this case, I think Mateo's gender is incidental. Just like Luisa came back to support Philippe Ray after getting famous, Mateo is helping his dear friend in a way only he can. While I agree about everyone needing a helping hand, I disagree about Ana's overall rise to fame. Emilio is the one who came up with the idea to call to Aurorita's. She only saw Ana because she knew Emilio and didn't normally meet with seamstresses because she didn't take take dressers made by them. So Emilio's connection did get her through the door and Aurorita gave her one week because she liked what she saw and was Emilio's friend. Ana seemed to be going in the right direction when she had the chance to get into another store and Cristina prevented her from going to the meeting on her wedding day. They dropped that direction like a lead balloon. Ana (and the writers) should have been pursuing getting her dresses into other stores. It wasn't believable that she was getting such a big name from one small store. If her designs were so in demand, she would have gotten other offers. The writers really dropped the ball here and it would have been great for Ana's personal development. During the Phillip Ray days, Luisa (who I really miss now) asked Ana why she didn't open her own shop and Ana replied she wonders that too, but she can't shake Velvet. Ana's biggest problem is that she is so emotionally attached to Velvet and has been from day 1. I don't view her as a martyr, she wanted to save Velvet because she is insanely attached to it. I think a great S2 s/l for Ana would have been her leaving Velvet, but coming together to work on a project ala Airsa with Alberto. This would have showed her drive and that she was starting to get ahead by making bold decisions that would help empower her and further her own career. Alberto had ulterior motives with Airsa, he was NEVER going to consider any of the other seamstresses for the project. They just did that to make it seem fair. It's naive to think that Ana didn't get perks from her relationship with Alberto, she definitely benefited. Yes, she was in budget, but Alberto wanted to give her the opportunity and keep her close because he was jealous of her new relationship. It's not that she doesn't have talent (though honestly I don't love her designs, but I'm just swallowing what the show is selling), but she's not tenacious at all in going out and creating her own opportunities. In fact, when Cristina ruined her co-creation with Raul, what did Ana do? She sulked in bed and then decided to go back to being a seamstress, which led Alberto to making the deal with caifero. The problem with Ana is that they never showed her trying to break out on her own. After Airsa, she should have told Alberto that she was looking into design opportunities to build up her portfolio. But no, he is the one that decided Ana will stay a designer! There is zero chance a woman with so little design experience would have gotten a chance to co-design with Raul for a store like Velvet or have her designs go international if Alberto wasn't involved. She owes so much to him for giving her these huge opportunities. She might have the talent like thousands of others, but she couldn't secure what Alberto did for her, even if she wanted to. She had follow through and would deliver the best collection she could, but the opportunities were all there thanks to Alberto. Let's take this latest one with Adele. Adele comes to Velvet and Ana had to be talked into showing her dresses by Cristina of all people! Then she never followed up with Adele to bring her designs to NY, which would open up a totally new and lucrative market for her! Even potentially getting away from Marco. I'm so mad at the writers for totally ignoring this opportunity, putting aside the unbeknownst Alberto connection for a minute, it made her look completely lazy and unmotivated. Alberto didn't go away to find himself, that was a byproduct as was SILK from his travels. Ana's rejection of him and his guilt over what happened to her collection is what made him leave. He couldn't be around her and was totally depressed about her and the baby not being his that he basically ran away. He had how many years in London to find himself? I think he would have been perfectly happy marrying Ana, running Velvet and living in Madrid or leaving with her. Selling Velvet never entered his mind until Caifero offered to distribute Ana's line internationally. It was a tremendous personal sacrifice selling his legacy, something his father built and passed on to him. Mateo didn't want to come back to Velvet. It is not the same place and he is no longer with Clara. He said himself it was not the same without Alberto. Ana helped him come back because it benefitted her. What has she done for him? I like Ana, but she isn't always this selflessly innocent soul she is made out to be. It is nice that Mateo helped her but he lost his job in the process and then she finally does what she should have all along, quits. So it was all for nothing! I never understand why she worked so hard for people who tried to undercut her at every turn and for something that lines their pockets. In fact I felt that should have been a story arc this season, Ana plotting to get a better job or open her own place and leaving Marco and Enrique hi and dry. I thought Aurorita's would be hers, but it belongs to Velvet after all that work by she and Mateo.
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 25, 2016 23:11:59 GMT -5
I don't know if we are all watching same show.Ana has worked damn hard to get to where she is..please don't compare cristina with Ana that's unfair. Alberto helped push her career forward. .that's what you do for someone you love..same with Emilio he helped his niece to cultivate her talent..its not a bad thing.As for Mateo...he is keeping the promise he made to his best friend about having Ana's back..it may have cost him his job..its called LOYALTY. Cristina just prances around the galleria causing trouble..yet to design or sew any dress.Ana does the heavy lifting designing dresses and bringing in money for the store.She deserves the CREDIT. Clara or no Clara..when Alberto gets home and buys velvet back Mateo will be standing next to him as his right hand..Mateo will automatically have his job back.Primarily Mateo left velvet because of Alberto's absence..he couldn't fit in plus his complicated affair with Clara.I think him and Clara are heading the right direction that's a good thing. Nothing was handed to Ana freely..she worked for it.All the long nights she was awake sowing her phillipe Ray dresses. .that wasn't Alberto, Mateo or Emilio doing that for her ..she earned it.Period.
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Post by joyjoy on Nov 25, 2016 23:28:58 GMT -5
Ooh, I really disagree about this, guys. Anyone who has achieved any sort of success has had some break along the way (e.g., for an actor, the chance to audition, for an author, a chance to submit their manuscript to an editor, for a start-up, the chance to pitch their idea to an investor, etc). Don Emilio called Dona Aurorita, sure, but what I remember is that when Ana walked in she immediately said it didn't matter who her uncle was, she never took dresses from seamstresses. Ana opened her dress bag anyway, and when Dona Aurorita saw the dress she changed her mind and said she'd keep the it for a one week trial period but only continue carrying her work in the store if it sold really well. And it did, it sold twice that day, so Ana had to make them overnight, after a full day of work and before the next. Sure, her uncle steered her to Dona Aurorita, but basically the only help he provided was the name of a shop that would give her a chance. She succeeded as Philippe Ray--and she really built a name for herself that had Madrid buzzing (remember, Raul and Mateo knew Philippe Ray; Valentin said that was his sister's favorite designer; Sara Ortega wanted to know who he was)--because people bought her designs or when they saw them in magazines they liked them. In terms of her tenacity, she--along with Rita and Luisa and eventually Jonas, of course--seemed to be making something like 10 dresses a week. To make more than a dress by hand, every day, for months on end, in addition to full time work, shopping for materials, delivering the dresses, and coming up with new designs, etc is a ton of work. (Also, Ana (or at least one of them) realized that Luisa wearing the dress for the St. Valentine's Day radio event would be good publicity, which was savvy marketing.) I see that as Ana taking advantage of the tiniest crumb of an opportunity and working very hard to become a known designer against the odds in a pretty short amount of time. As for the Airsa uniforms, Alberto had only TWO DAYS to get a designer to come up with a proposal for the meeting, so he needed Ana more than she needed him. (Before Enrique sprang this deadline on him, Alberto had a list of ideas for other designers but knew none of them would consider working under those conditions.) Moreover, the reason that he thought of her at all is that he believed in Ana's talent--remember, technically he gave everyone in the taller a chance to design the uniforms, and both he and Mateo thought all the other sketches were terrible. It's true he pushed her to do it when she didn't want to at first, but her hesitation doesn't seem like something that should be held against her ambition since Ana told her uncle she was afraid Alberto was giving her the job because of their relationship. When Emilio told her that she was the one mixing feelings with work, she decided to submit her drawing(s) precisely because it was such a good opportunity for her as a designer, one should couldn't pass up even though she was so reluctant to work with him. And regardless of what Alberto thought, they wouldn't have sealed the deal with Airsa if Sara Ortega and her father--two very demanding, impartial parties--didn't believe in her designs. In fact, they almost lost the contract when Ana changed her design at Enrique and that crazy-designer-in-the-wheelchair-who-could-walk-whose-name-I-forget's "request." So sure, the Airsa opportunity was a bit of a lucky break, but one that Enrique precipitated as well as Alberto, and most importantly: it doesn't matter if you get an audition if you don't have the goods. Her success was far from guaranteed--in fact, Enrique was working as hard as possible to be sure that the project would fail. (Also, the chance to submit designs for the contract was a lucky break for Velvet--it brought it some much needed cash flow--and while Enrique took credit for bringing the opportunity in, I think there's at least a chance that Carlos just pulled the strings for Enrique so he had an excuse to hang around Velvet, so this could kind of be a case of Ana making her own luck.) Ana had no choice but to go back to being a seamstress after designing the Airsa uniforms. (I mean, unless she wanted to quit.) She was an employee of the gallery at that point--and hadn't been given a promotion despite her work on Airsa--though she did continue selling her dresses to Dona Aurorita. (It was after the total failure of her half of the de la Riva/Ray collection that she tried to demote herself.) But in terms of Alberto "giving" her the job working with Raul, sure, but he also "gave" Raul the job working with Ana. As director, he hired designers. Plus, he hired her because of the fact that she'd already become the hot new thing as Philippe Ray, and because she could motivate and work with Raul under pressure to come out a new collection asap. (If anything, by not having her do a solo collection Alberto either hedged his bets or showed less confidence in her than he had in Raul.) Everyone, including the many who didn't know Philippe Ray was Ana, thought securing that contract with "him" for Velvet was a great move. Strongly believing in her talent is not only a personal issue, it makes fundamental professional sense: it should be at the core of their director-designer relationship. Trusting in any particular designer's talent and giving her an opportunity to prove herself (as Ana eventually did with bells on), was Alberto's job as the head of a design house. That dynamic certainly is true of Alberto and Raul's, and later Enzo and Raul's and Enzo and Ana's, relationship. Alberto basically bet Velvet on Raul's first collection, which almost drove it into bankruptcy again. Alberto believed in Ana for very legitimate reasons that she had already demonstrated (i.e., Airsa and Philippe Ray to that point) and she had already built a fanbase of clients and earned the attention of the press. And Alberto soothed both Ana and Raul's feathers about the Oteguis, whether it was Ana when tempted to quit after Cristina became her (indirect) boss or Raul when he had a conflict with Enrique or actually did officially resign. As I see it, his sensitive-artist-handling wasn't dramatically different (other than of course for the reasons the Oteguis were against each, and the exact way Alberto talked to them). As for Ana's work on the joint collection, during the runway show itself the audience clearly loved her dresses just as much as Raul's. It was just the newspaper story that led to its failure, and I personally can excuse Ana for temporarily becoming extremely depressed and (at least temporarily) ready to give up after: 1. total public humiliation at her very first show, something she had dreamed about all her life (in addition to the personal embarrassment of having a very one-sided version of her love life published in the newspaper), 2. the complete failure of her collection (no one bought even a single dress!), particularly when she had worked at the Galerias all her life and had come to see sales as a sign of the success of a designer's work, and 3. the feeling that she had given up everything in her life (which, well, I guess was just Alberto?) for her career and now that she failed she was left with nothing. I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed either. (Remember Raul was ready to give up--he gave up--too after Oxford stole his whole collection and he had to start over again from zero. That seemed understandable enough at the time!) Reinforcing the fact that Ana deserved the success she eventually gained, and it wasn't handed to her unfairly, Philippe Ray was the big prize for Cafiero. Alberto played poker to convince Enzo to sell the earlier collections internationally, but when Alberto called a second time Enzo knew all about Ana/Philippe; he wanted to work with her because he thought she'd be the next Coco Chanel and he wanted her to design for his stores in different cities, etc. Sure, that's an opportunity, but one that, once again, she absolutely earned. Yeah, the reason Alberto called was entangled in his feelings for Ana and his desire to reanimate her belief in herself as a designer, but it was also because of the personal that she had ever failed in the first place. (Obviously it wasn't only Alberto's fault that Cristina was Ana's enemy, but C was the source of that front page scandal story of Ana/Philippe Ray the day Alberto annulled their marriage.) Plus, trying to sell Ana's line outside of Spain made more money for Velvet: it was a personal thing, but it also was (as they had joked about as kids, which gave him the idea), him acting as her Italian (business) representative, which is what Velvet's director should do. And as an aside: Alberto never tried to negotiate the terms of his second deal with Enzo--at that point, he was ready to leave, so selling Velvet was a tempting offer when it fell into his lap. I'm not sure Lara if you are also referring to Alberto as one of the men who made a sacrifice for Ana? His letter from Istanbul makes it pretty clear he needs to find himself again to be able to be happy, and that wasn't going to happen at Velvet. So it doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice--he's also got what he needed, no matter how hard it was to say goodbye. Mateo did stick his neck out for Ana, and he did lose his job over it, but she helped him get back into Velvet, with Alberto's old office (taking it out from under Marco), with double his previous salary, and the complete freedom to work both jobs (until he was fired). He made the choice to sacrifice something to help out a friend, but it's not like she's never done anything for him. This season as the old gang gets back together (aka the friendships among all the 'good guys' re-form/tighten as they grow closer again), the writers are definitely showing how important loyalty and friendship are and how Ana is still part of the Velvet "family" that she grew up as a part of downstairs despite her success, a family that used to include Alberto, upstairs, in its periphery and now includes Mateo. Mateo and Ana have developed such a beautiful friendship this season. It's one of my favorite parts--if they'd only get stinking drunk together it might fill in a little more of the Mateo-Alberto shaped hole in my heart. In this case, I think Mateo's gender is incidental. Just like Luisa came back to support Philippe Ray after getting famous, Mateo is helping his dear friend in a way only he can. While I agree about everyone needing a helping hand, I disagree about Ana's overall rise to fame. Emilio is the one who came up with the idea to call to Aurorita's. She only saw Ana because she knew Emilio and didn't normally meet with seamstresses because she didn't take take dressers made by them. So Emilio's connection did get her through the door and Aurorita gave her one week because she liked what she saw and was Emilio's friend. Ana seemed to be going in the right direction when she had the chance to get into another store and Cristina prevented her from going to the meeting on her wedding day. They dropped that direction like a lead balloon. Ana (and the writers) should have been pursuing getting her dresses into other stores. It wasn't believable that she was getting such a big name from one small store. If her designs were so in demand, she would have gotten other offers. The writers really dropped the ball here and it would have been great for Ana's personal development. During the Phillip Ray days, Luisa (who I really miss now) asked Ana why she didn't open her own shop and Ana replied she wonders that too, but she can't shake Velvet. Ana's biggest problem is that she is so emotionally attached to Velvet and has been from day 1. I don't view her as a martyr, she wanted to save Velvet because she is insanely attached to it. I think a great S2 s/l for Ana would have been her leaving Velvet, but coming together to work on a project ala Airsa with Alberto. This would have showed her drive and that she was starting to get ahead by making bold decisions that would help empower her and further her own career. Alberto had ulterior motives with Airsa, he was NEVER going to consider any of the other seamstresses for the project. They just did that to make it seem fair. It's naive to think that Ana didn't get perks from her relationship with Alberto, she definitely benefited. Yes, she was in budget, but Alberto wanted to give her the opportunity and keep her close because he was jealous of her new relationship. It's not that she doesn't have talent (though honestly I don't love her designs, but I'm just swallowing what the show is selling), but she's not tenacious at all in going out and creating her own opportunities. In fact, when Cristina ruined her co-creation with Raul, what did Ana do? She sulked in bed and then decided to go back to being a seamstress, which led Alberto to making the deal with caifero. The problem with Ana is that they never showed her trying to break out on her own. After Airsa, she should have told Alberto that she was looking into design opportunities to build up her portfolio. But no, he is the one that decided Ana will stay a designer! There is zero chance a woman with so little design experience would have gotten a chance to co-design with Raul for a store like Velvet or have her designs go international if Alberto wasn't involved. She owes so much to him for giving her these huge opportunities. She might have the talent like thousands of others, but she couldn't secure what Alberto did for her, even if she wanted to. She had follow through and would deliver the best collection she could, but the opportunities were all there thanks to Alberto. Let's take this latest one with Adele. Adele comes to Velvet and Ana had to be talked into showing her dresses by Cristina of all people! Then she never followed up with Adele to bring her designs to NY, which would open up a totally new and lucrative market for her! Even potentially getting away from Marco. I'm so mad at the writers for totally ignoring this opportunity, putting aside the unbeknownst Alberto connection for a minute, it made her look completely lazy and unmotivated. Alberto didn't go away to find himself, that was a byproduct as was SILK from his travels. Ana's rejection of him and his guilt over what happened to her collection is what made him leave. He couldn't be around her and was totally depressed about her and the baby not being his that he basically ran away. He had how many years in London to find himself? I think he would have been perfectly happy marrying Ana, running Velvet and living in Madrid or leaving with her. Selling Velvet never entered his mind until Caifero offered to distribute Ana's line internationally. It was a tremendous personal sacrifice selling his legacy, something his father built and passed on to him. Mateo didn't want to come back to Velvet. It is not the same place and he is no longer with Clara. He said himself it was not the same without Alberto. Ana helped him come back because it benefitted her. What has she done for him? I like Ana, but she isn't always this selflessly innocent soul she is made out to be. It is nice that Mateo helped her but he lost his job in the process and then she finally does what she should have all along, quits. So it was all for nothing! I never understand why she worked so hard for people who tried to undercut her at every turn and for something that lines their pockets. In fact I felt that should have been a story arc this season, Ana plotting to get a better job or open her own place and leaving Marco and Enrique hi and dry. I thought Aurorita's would be hers, but it belongs to Velvet after all that work by she and Mateo.
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Post by joyjoy on Nov 25, 2016 23:35:30 GMT -5
While I agree about everyone needing a helping hand, I disagree about Ana's overall rise to fame. Emilio is the one who came up with the idea to call to Aurorita's. She only saw Ana because she knew Emilio and didn't normally meet with seamstresses because she didn't take take dressers made by them. So Emilio's connection did get her through the door and Aurorita gave her one week because she liked what she saw and was Emilio's friend. Ana seemed to be going in the right direction when she had the chance to get into another store and Cristina prevented her from going to the meeting on her wedding day. They dropped that direction like a lead balloon. Ana (and the writers) should have been pursuing getting her dresses into other stores. It wasn't believable that she was getting such a big name from one small store. If her designs were so in demand, she would have gotten other offers. The writers really dropped the ball here and it would have been great for Ana's personal development. During the Phillip Ray days, Luisa (who I really miss now) asked Ana why she didn't open her own shop and Ana replied she wonders that too, but she can't shake Velvet. Ana's biggest problem is that she is so emotionally attached to Velvet and has been from day 1. I don't view her as a martyr, she wanted to save Velvet because she is insanely attached to it. I think a great S2 s/l for Ana would have been her leaving Velvet, but coming together to work on a project ala Airsa with Alberto. This would have showed her drive and that she was starting to get ahead by making bold decisions that would help empower her and further her own career. Alberto had ulterior motives with Airsa, he was NEVER going to consider any of the other seamstresses for the project. They just did that to make it seem fair. It's naive to think that Ana didn't get perks from her relationship with Alberto, she definitely benefited. Yes, she was in budget, but Alberto wanted to give her the opportunity and keep her close because he was jealous of her new relationship. It's not that she doesn't have talent (though honestly I don't love her designs, but I'm just swallowing what the show is selling), but she's not tenacious at all in going out and creating her own opportunities. In fact, when Cristina ruined her co-creation with Raul, what did Ana do? She sulked in bed and then decided to go back to being a seamstress, which led Alberto to making the deal with caifero. The problem with Ana is that they never showed her trying to break out on her own. After Airsa, she should have told Alberto that she was looking into design opportunities to build up her portfolio. But no, he is the one that decided Ana will stay a designer! There is zero chance a woman with so little design experience would have gotten a chance to co-design with Raul for a store like Velvet or have her designs go international if Alberto wasn't involved. She owes so much to him for giving her these huge opportunities. She might have the talent like thousands of others, but she couldn't secure what Alberto did for her, even if she wanted to. She had follow through and would deliver the best collection she could, but the opportunities were all there thanks to Alberto. Let's take this latest one with Adele. Adele comes to Velvet and Ana had to be talked into showing her dresses by Cristina of all people! Then she never followed up with Adele to bring her designs to NY, which would open up a totally new and lucrative market for her! Even potentially getting away from Marco. I'm so mad at the writers for totally ignoring this opportunity, putting aside the unbeknownst Alberto connection for a minute, it made her look completely lazy and unmotivated. Alberto didn't go away to find himself, that was a byproduct as was SILK from his travels. Ana's rejection of him and his guilt over what happened to her collection is what made him leave. He couldn't be around her and was totally depressed about her and the baby not being his that he basically ran away. He had how many years in London to find himself? I think he would have been perfectly happy marrying Ana, running Velvet and living in Madrid or leaving with her. Selling Velvet never entered his mind until Caifero offered to distribute Ana's line internationally. It was a tremendous personal sacrifice selling his legacy, something his father built and passed on to him. Mateo didn't want to come back to Velvet. It is not the same place and he is no longer with Clara. He said himself it was not the same without Alberto. Ana helped him come back because it benefitted her. What has she done for him? I like Ana, but she isn't always this selflessly innocent soul she is made out to be. It is nice that Mateo helped her but he lost his job in the process and then she finally does what she should have all along, quits. So it was all for nothing! I never understand why she worked so hard for people who tried to undercut her at every turn and for something that lines their pockets. In fact I felt that should have been a story arc this season, Ana plotting to get a better job or open her own place and leaving Marco and Enrique hi and dry. I thought Aurorita's would be hers, but it belongs to Velvet after all that work by she and Mateo.
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Post by joyjoy on Nov 25, 2016 23:38:07 GMT -5
Ooh, I really disagree about this, guys. Anyone who has achieved any sort of success has had some break along the way (e.g., for an actor, the chance to audition, for an author, a chance to submit their manuscript to an editor, for a start-up, the chance to pitch their idea to an investor, etc). Don Emilio called Dona Aurorita, sure, but what I remember is that when Ana walked in she immediately said it didn't matter who her uncle was, she never took dresses from seamstresses. Ana opened her dress bag anyway, and when Dona Aurorita saw the dress she changed her mind and said she'd keep the it for a one week trial period but only continue carrying her work in the store if it sold really well. And it did, it sold twice that day, so Ana had to make them overnight, after a full day of work and before the next. Sure, her uncle steered her to Dona Aurorita, but basically the only help he provided was the name of a shop that would give her a chance. She succeeded as Philippe Ray--and she really built a name for herself that had Madrid buzzing (remember, Raul and Mateo knew Philippe Ray; Valentin said that was his sister's favorite designer; Sara Ortega wanted to know who he was)--because people bought her designs or when they saw them in magazines they liked them. In terms of her tenacity, she--along with Rita and Luisa and eventually Jonas, of course--seemed to be making something like 10 dresses a week. To make more than a dress by hand, every day, for months on end, in addition to full time work, shopping for materials, delivering the dresses, and coming up with new designs, etc is a ton of work. (Also, Ana (or at least one of them) realized that Luisa wearing the dress for the St. Valentine's Day radio event would be good publicity, which was savvy marketing.) I see that as Ana taking advantage of the tiniest crumb of an opportunity and working very hard to become a known designer against the odds in a pretty short amount of time. As for the Airsa uniforms, Alberto had only TWO DAYS to get a designer to come up with a proposal for the meeting, so he needed Ana more than she needed him. (Before Enrique sprang this deadline on him, Alberto had a list of ideas for other designers but knew none of them would consider working under those conditions.) Moreover, the reason that he thought of her at all is that he believed in Ana's talent--remember, technically he gave everyone in the taller a chance to design the uniforms, and both he and Mateo thought all the other sketches were terrible. It's true he pushed her to do it when she didn't want to at first, but her hesitation doesn't seem like something that should be held against her ambition since Ana told her uncle she was afraid Alberto was giving her the job because of their relationship. When Emilio told her that she was the one mixing feelings with work, she decided to submit her drawing(s) precisely because it was such a good opportunity for her as a designer, one should couldn't pass up even though she was so reluctant to work with him. And regardless of what Alberto thought, they wouldn't have sealed the deal with Airsa if Sara Ortega and her father--two very demanding, impartial parties--didn't believe in her designs. In fact, they almost lost the contract when Ana changed her design at Enrique and that crazy-designer-in-the-wheelchair-who-could-walk-whose-name-I-forget's "request." So sure, the Airsa opportunity was a bit of a lucky break, but one that Enrique precipitated as well as Alberto, and most importantly: it doesn't matter if you get an audition if you don't have the goods. Her success was far from guaranteed--in fact, Enrique was working as hard as possible to be sure that the project would fail. (Also, the chance to submit designs for the contract was a lucky break for Velvet--it brought it some much needed cash flow--and while Enrique took credit for bringing the opportunity in, I think there's at least a chance that Carlos just pulled the strings for Enrique so he had an excuse to hang around Velvet, so this could kind of be a case of Ana making her own luck.) Ana had no choice but to go back to being a seamstress after designing the Airsa uniforms. (I mean, unless she wanted to quit.) She was an employee of the gallery at that point--and hadn't been given a promotion despite her work on Airsa--though she did continue selling her dresses to Dona Aurorita. (It was after the total failure of her half of the de la Riva/Ray collection that she tried to demote herself.) But in terms of Alberto "giving" her the job working with Raul, sure, but he also "gave" Raul the job working with Ana. As director, he hired designers. Plus, he hired her because of the fact that she'd already become the hot new thing as Philippe Ray, and because she could motivate and work with Raul under pressure to come out a new collection asap. (If anything, by not having her do a solo collection Alberto either hedged his bets or showed less confidence in her than he had in Raul.) Everyone, including the many who didn't know Philippe Ray was Ana, thought securing that contract with "him" for Velvet was a great move. Strongly believing in her talent is not only a personal issue, it makes fundamental professional sense: it should be at the core of their director-designer relationship. Trusting in any particular designer's talent and giving her an opportunity to prove herself (as Ana eventually did with bells on), was Alberto's job as the head of a design house. That dynamic certainly is true of Alberto and Raul's, and later Enzo and Raul's and Enzo and Ana's, relationship. Alberto basically bet Velvet on Raul's first collection, which almost drove it into bankruptcy again. Alberto believed in Ana for very legitimate reasons that she had already demonstrated (i.e., Airsa and Philippe Ray to that point) and she had already built a fanbase of clients and earned the attention of the press. And Alberto soothed both Ana and Raul's feathers about the Oteguis, whether it was Ana when tempted to quit after Cristina became her (indirect) boss or Raul when he had a conflict with Enrique or actually did officially resign. As I see it, his sensitive-artist-handling wasn't dramatically different (other than of course for the reasons the Oteguis were against each, and the exact way Alberto talked to them). As for Ana's work on the joint collection, during the runway show itself the audience clearly loved her dresses just as much as Raul's. It was just the newspaper story that led to its failure, and I personally can excuse Ana for temporarily becoming extremely depressed and (at least temporarily) ready to give up after: 1. total public humiliation at her very first show, something she had dreamed about all her life (in addition to the personal embarrassment of having a very one-sided version of her love life published in the newspaper), 2. the complete failure of her collection (no one bought even a single dress!), particularly when she had worked at the Galerias all her life and had come to see sales as a sign of the success of a designer's work, and 3. the feeling that she had given up everything in her life (which, well, I guess was just Alberto?) for her career and now that she failed she was left with nothing. I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed either. (Remember Raul was ready to give up--he gave up--too after Oxford stole his whole collection and he had to start over again from zero. That seemed understandable enough at the time!) Reinforcing the fact that Ana deserved the success she eventually gained, and it wasn't handed to her unfairly, Philippe Ray was the big prize for Cafiero. Alberto played poker to convince Enzo to sell the earlier collections internationally, but when Alberto called a second time Enzo knew all about Ana/Philippe; he wanted to work with her because he thought she'd be the next Coco Chanel and he wanted her to design for his stores in different cities, etc. Sure, that's an opportunity, but one that, once again, she absolutely earned. Yeah, the reason Alberto called was entangled in his feelings for Ana and his desire to reanimate her belief in herself as a designer, but it was also because of the personal that she had ever failed in the first place. (Obviously it wasn't only Alberto's fault that Cristina was Ana's enemy, but C was the source of that front page scandal story of Ana/Philippe Ray the day Alberto annulled their marriage.) Plus, trying to sell Ana's line outside of Spain made more money for Velvet: it was a personal thing, but it also was (as they had joked about as kids, which gave him the idea), him acting as her Italian (business) representative, which is what Velvet's director should do. And as an aside: Alberto never tried to negotiate the terms of his second deal with Enzo--at that point, he was ready to leave, so selling Velvet was a tempting offer when it fell into his lap. I'm not sure Lara if you are also referring to Alberto as one of the men who made a sacrifice for Ana? His letter from Istanbul makes it pretty clear he needs to find himself again to be able to be happy, and that wasn't going to happen at Velvet. So it doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice--he's also got what he needed, no matter how hard it was to say goodbye. Mateo did stick his neck out for Ana, and he did lose his job over it, but she helped him get back into Velvet, with Alberto's old office (taking it out from under Marco), with double his previous salary, and the complete freedom to work both jobs (until he was fired). He made the choice to sacrifice something to help out a friend, but it's not like she's never done anything for him. This season as the old gang gets back together (aka the friendships among all the 'good guys' re-form/tighten as they grow closer again), the writers are definitely showing how important loyalty and friendship are and how Ana is still part of the Velvet "family" that she grew up as a part of downstairs despite her success, a family that used to include Alberto, upstairs, in its periphery and now includes Mateo. Mateo and Ana have developed such a beautiful friendship this season. It's one of my favorite parts--if they'd only get stinking drunk together it might fill in a little more of the Mateo-Alberto shaped hole in my heart. In this case, I think Mateo's gender is incidental. Just like Luisa came back to support Philippe Ray after getting famous, Mateo is helping his dear friend in a way only he can. While I agree about everyone needing a helping hand, I disagree about Ana's overall rise to fame. Emilio is the one who came up with the idea to call to Aurorita's. She only saw Ana because she knew Emilio and didn't normally meet with seamstresses because she didn't take take dressers made by them. So Emilio's connection did get her through the door and Aurorita gave her one week because she liked what she saw and was Emilio's friend. Ana seemed to be going in the right direction when she had the chance to get into another store and Cristina prevented her from going to the meeting on her wedding day. They dropped that direction like a lead balloon. Ana (and the writers) should have been pursuing getting her dresses into other stores. It wasn't believable that she was getting such a big name from one small store. If her designs were so in demand, she would have gotten other offers. The writers really dropped the ball here and it would have been great for Ana's personal development. During the Phillip Ray days, Luisa (who I really miss now) asked Ana why she didn't open her own shop and Ana replied she wonders that too, but she can't shake Velvet. Ana's biggest problem is that she is so emotionally attached to Velvet and has been from day 1. I don't view her as a martyr, she wanted to save Velvet because she is insanely attached to it. I think a great S2 s/l for Ana would have been her leaving Velvet, but coming together to work on a project ala Airsa with Alberto. This would have showed her drive and that she was starting to get ahead by making bold decisions that would help empower her and further her own career. Alberto had ulterior motives with Airsa, he was NEVER going to consider any of the other seamstresses for the project. They just did that to make it seem fair. It's naive to think that Ana didn't get perks from her relationship with Alberto, she definitely benefited. Yes, she was in budget, but Alberto wanted to give her the opportunity and keep her close because he was jealous of her new relationship. It's not that she doesn't have talent (though honestly I don't love her designs, but I'm just swallowing what the show is selling), but she's not tenacious at all in going out and creating her own opportunities. In fact, when Cristina ruined her co-creation with Raul, what did Ana do? She sulked in bed and then decided to go back to being a seamstress, which led Alberto to making the deal with caifero. The problem with Ana is that they never showed her trying to break out on her own. After Airsa, she should have told Alberto that she was looking into design opportunities to build up her portfolio. But no, he is the one that decided Ana will stay a designer! There is zero chance a woman with so little design experience would have gotten a chance to co-design with Raul for a store like Velvet or have her designs go international if Alberto wasn't involved. She owes so much to him for giving her these huge opportunities. She might have the talent like thousands of others, but she couldn't secure what Alberto did for her, even if she wanted to. She had follow through and would deliver the best collection she could, but the opportunities were all there thanks to Alberto. Let's take this latest one with Adele. Adele comes to Velvet and Ana had to be talked into showing her dresses by Cristina of all people! Then she never followed up with Adele to bring her designs to NY, which would open up a totally new and lucrative market for her! Even potentially getting away from Marco. I'm so mad at the writers for totally ignoring this opportunity, putting aside the unbeknownst Alberto connection for a minute, it made her look completely lazy and unmotivated. Alberto didn't go away to find himself, that was a byproduct as was SILK from his travels. Ana's rejection of him and his guilt over what happened to her collection is what made him leave. He couldn't be around her and was totally depressed about her and the baby not being his that he basically ran away. He had how many years in London to find himself? I think he would have been perfectly happy marrying Ana, running Velvet and living in Madrid or leaving with her. Selling Velvet never entered his mind until Caifero offered to distribute Ana's line internationally. It was a tremendous personal sacrifice selling his legacy, something his father built and passed on to him. Mateo didn't want to come back to Velvet. It is not the same place and he is no longer with Clara. He said himself it was not the same without Alberto. Ana helped him come back because it benefitted her. What has she done for him? I like Ana, but she isn't always this selflessly innocent soul she is made out to be. It is nice that Mateo helped her but he lost his job in the process and then she finally does what she should have all along, quits. So it was all for nothing! I never understand why she worked so hard for people who tried to undercut her at every turn and for something that lines their pockets. In fact I felt that should have been a story arc this season, Ana plotting to get a better job or open her own place and leaving Marco and Enrique hi and dry. I thought Aurorita's would be hers, but it belongs to Velvet after all that work by she and Mateo.
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Post by joyjoy on Nov 26, 2016 0:04:44 GMT -5
Not quite sure who said what? I have not posted much on here, so here goes!! Not sure if this comes from Lara but the post begins with: "Ooh, I disagree about this, guys." I absolutely agree with her entire post!! Ana's character is sweet, naive, humble and trusting. Her innocence and genuineness is why Alberto fell in love with her. There is not another character on the show to compare her with! The writers have made this show into what we in the USA call a soap opera. In order to lengthen the show, they jump from character to character and what is going on in their lives. I am not sure the producers knew how popular this show would be loved by so many people from all over the world! Therefore, when MAS (Alberto) was offered a leading role in Sense, his fans became upset and are anxiously awaiting his return. Is this show perfect? No, but no show is. I love the simplicity of the love scenes, the sets, music, clothes and hair styles. I was a teenager! High school & college student during this time period. I was married n 1965. So, I relate to this time period. I could go on and on about my theories but I won't. I will add one fact that was made by Petra. She is renting the space to Marco & Carlos. She considers Ana's uncle a dear friend, therefore, I believe that she will list Ana as her beneficiary! I love VV for all of her hard work on subtitling the series on English as well as all of the work that goes with it! I will continue reading all of the threads as I love reading all comments! I am still missing Alfi's posts❣
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Post by BK on Nov 26, 2016 0:14:11 GMT -5
You are absolutely right about Ana. The writers couldn't care less to show her independence, her determination, her design ability. They wasted too much screen time on other things. Ana's outfit that she wore talking to Marco is terrible so matronly. I am really start to wonder what the hell is the designer doing to Ana's outfit! Is just so undeveloped like her character. They spend so much wasted energy on others why not her !! OMG, that outfit is the one I've been talking about and it might be the ugliest she has ever worn! I think it looks like a maternity top worn backwards. She is way to matronly looking this season, that is part of the reason I'm not sure I can still picture her with Alberto. There's not supposed to be an age difference, but she might look older than him styled this way. I'm glad that she at least loses that horrible wig for the wedding. The writers really didn't develop Cristina much either. They never dug into why she was so obsessed with Alberto, what she knew or didn't know about his proposal and Ana or her narcissistic personality disorder, which she clearly has had for all 4 seasons. The problem is she bested Ana 9/10 times. She won't win the war, but she won most of the battles and that's no fun to watch, at least not her character. She isn't exactly a love to hate character, she is hate/hate. Ana was a missed opportunity because they really didn't show her stand on her two feet, which this last season was PERFECT for. Up until the end she is still living a boring life, making bad decisions, still needing to be rescued and still being victimized. I know I've already gone on forever, but I'm going to continue to play Miss Contrary, at least about some things... One thing I do agree with is that we haven't seen anywhere near enough of Ana's actual design work or professional life since the five year jump. The glimpses--her awards in London and Rome, the fact that she's been traveling to design collections in other cities, the multiple magazine appearances, etc--obviously suggest amazing creative work and critical and popular success. The one exception was in the very first episode we got to see Ana in action, and while it wasn't so much fashion all the time, I thought it was a very vivd, compelling version an evolved, independent, strong Ana: she believed pret-a-porter was the next thing, when Marco turned her down she quickly went over his head, she was driven and focused, she knew who to go to (Mateo) to help her win Enzo Cafiero over, once Mateo used his knowledge of Enzo's business taste for betting they came up with a strategy (bonus: a much-matured Mateo was also on display), she designed a dress (although I thought it was kind of ugly?), was commanding but appreciative when getting Dona Blanca and the taller to produce the dresses under pressure (Blanca in particular was notably deferential), confident in her presentation to Enzo, and knew exactly how to get Mateo to agree to return to Velvet so she could have her ready-to-wear line. That little conversation at the bar between Ana and Mateo where she kind of wheedles and he sighs and knows all along he's going to accept for her is great. Ana has so much more confidence in her needs and her charms, if that makes sense, without being manipulative. In other words, she shows an ability to get what she wants that is the opposite of Cristina's very formidable, uglier version of this power--Ana is straightforward about what she wants and why she wants it, and she's convincing about why you should help her and what you can get out of doing so. But after this episode, nada. There's a lot of yelling, and Ana does overcome obstacles (with a little help from her friends), but you're right that she seems much more passive and less powerful. But they all do. It's like they're playing badminton or something--the birdie goes back and forth, but nothing ever changes and it's all the same. I wouldn't say Marco or Enrique or Cristina seem proactive or powerful either, and I'm not sure that I see Cristina's 90% win rate anywhere either. Everyone's spinning their wheels. It's just a bunch of blah. Other than the repetitive plot problems that have bogged everyone down in boring power plays that never resolve, so make no one look powerful, the only thing that makes Ana seem weak to me is that she is so resigned to marrying Carlos. Knowing that she doesn't love him, knowing that he used Albertito to convince her the desire to give her son a father was good enough reason to marry, it just seems so out of character that she'd settle this way. I mean, she grew up without a father and, from a young age, a mother. She definitely seems to consider Velvet her home and the employees there her family. She has so many people to rely on, it doesn't ring true that she'd feel the need to "depend on a man" to "be a father to her son" in those really cliche and traditional ways. I do find it wildly inconsistent that she wouldn't be more independent. This is also so, so bad because (and I'm going to quote Lara here, though I just copy-and-pasted because I'm the worst with getting these bubbles to work for me): [They have a habit of telling us what we are supposed to be seeing that actually doesn't look like what they describe at all. Patricia/Enrique always looked like some sleazy booty call between two horny people. Emilio and Blanca have always appeared to have a nice friendship but nothing more. Yet, now they are pushing a romance that I still don't see. Carlos and Ana, the same thing, Carlos doesn't show any love towards Ana to be remotely obsessed with her.] CARLOS. He and Ana are so physically awkward together this season! Several times I've thought, Carlos, wtf are you doing, why are you staring connivingly/hatefully off into space when you could be holding the supposed love of your life, kissing her, comforting her, or at least acting not like a cardboard cut out while she literally weeps in front of you? I mean, I guess they've kissed, twice? three times, including the time when her kid was in the middle? in 8 episodes, as they've gotten engaged twice? (I could be forgetting some because, you know, they're not so memorable.) In S2 I didn't think they had great chemistry, but it was good enough, and at least he seemed really into her and physically affectionate in appropriate ways for a boyfriend (until he found out about Alberto, when he started to be particularly physically affectionate in front of Alberto to rub their relationship in A's face, and of course when they broke up his touching/grabbing was not okay). But that relatively lack of chemistry, which also seemed to start off a little stronger and peter out, seemed appropriate for that story arc, where Ana's doubts kept on growing. I mean, I know Ana still doesn't love Carlos, but things are so dead there now and it's just as true (if not more?) on his side from what we're actually seeing on the screen, and we're supposed to believe they plan to get married in a week. I don't even mean this as an A/A-shipper, but I literally cannot imagine their wedding night together. (As a side note: I first saw the actor, Peter Vives, in another Spanish tv series where he had amazing chemistry with the female lead, but I swear to god the UGLIEST television kiss I've ever seen. I've never thought about how ugly or pretty a television kiss is, you might think to yourself? I hadn't either, until I saw this. Obviously there were two people involved, but dear god. I know the tongues are bothering some people in Patricia and Enrique scenes, and I'd hate to be kissed like that and find it not at all sexy to look at either, but it has nothing on the completely tongue-less kiss I'm talking about.) Other than her relationship with Carlos, though, I don't know what mistakes Ana is making. It seems like Marco is unpleasant to work for (which mostly affects the employees at the Galerias, not so much Ana as a designer who presumably while in Madrid works fairly independently, and under her own contract) as well as a total ass, but Ana has been spending a lot of time away from him, working in other cities in Europe. From her perspective, I think Enzo Cafiero--who as far as we can tell continues to be the kind of paternal, supportive figure he was in S3--has had a much larger effect on her career and her life, until now that she's trying to revolutionize fashion in an area that Marco considers to be under his control. I gather/suspect that the rise of Ana's star has been eating away at him, but they hadn't come to loggerheads until the pret-a-porter line, so she had no reason to leave Velvet--it was her home and she has had a lot of success in just five years while working there. (I do get the impression from Don Emilio that things haven't been quite as smooth in the store itself--that after Marco's first list of demands for longer work hours, earlier curfew, etc, things have gradually gotten worse, and he and Don Emilio have been slowly grinding away at each other for some time.) But I'm glad she's going to quit, it definitely seems like time since the season began, though I'm not sure how complicated things will be for her. I don't think they've been explicit about her contract with the Cafieros, but I'd wager that any collection she designed for Velvet would belong to the company, not her (i.e., she couldn't sell Velvet Collections dresses somewhere on her own). Petra still owns the store where that line is being sold, but probably the lease to rent it to Velvet has a set term (i.e., their contract lasts for a year, or 5 years, or something), rather than being month to month. (And I believe we know that contract is with Velvet, not Ana, right?) Any money that Ana put into renovations to the space would have to stay there. Finally, Ana most likely has an agreement of some sort with Velvet/Enzo Cafiero. Again, it might be for a period of time or a number of collections (in which case we have no idea how much/many is/are left), or it could be something either could choose to end at any point. There are also probably a number of ways the contract could be canceled, i.e., if one or the other party violated their side of the agreement. Those are all just general contract terms that come to my mind, but who knows how the writers will play this out. Final point in my disagreeableness: Ana's outfit while talking to Marco in next week's preview is my favorite of the season. I love the color. To me, it is the most youthful--the outfit is all about bold design statements that might rub some people the wrong way, but are pushing the envelope, are trying something new (especially for the time period, though fashion moves in cycles and these ideas have come up since and will come up again in some way, e.g., oversized, droopy shirts that have been in for several years recently). The outfit is about proportion and scale: the collar, the cut, the buttons, the relative stiffness of the fabric, the length of the sleeve hitting right at the hem of the shirt, the width of the sleeve--it's all about playing with volume and how to make the familiar skirt suit new-looking. It isn't figure flattering, but I don't find it unflattering either, I just think the figure is beside the point in this outfit. It's boxy and it's high-volume (in both senses); it's supposed to be square, not an hourglass or clingy. I also just adore Ana's wedding dress with the cape (something of a personal mania, probably, since I love capes though am not brave enough to wear one). To me it seems sleek, modern, minimalist and elegant, all things I love. The hat is pretty ugly, though. ADDITIONALLY, the actresses' wardrobes are a huge reflection of their social statuses (I think one of their most consistent ways Velvet sticks to this theme, in fact, since the plot seems to kind of pick up and drop the class element as necessary). The reason Cristina had much more beautiful dresses is because she could afford to, not because she had better taste than Ana. The way class and costume and the fashion business are all baked together comes up over and over in Velvet: for example, when Raul was first introduced, Ana says he is her favorite designer as she's seen his work in fashion magazines, and her idea for how to win him over to release a previous collection that she had seen in one of them that had been rejected in Spain. Cristina owned (at least) one of Raul's dresses, had gone to the same (presumably fancy private) school as him, and her idea for how to win him over was to invite him over for dinner and flatter him. I do think Cristina has a sense of style, but Ana fought so much harder to feed hers--e.g., when she's staying at Alberto's house after the car accident she just pours over Rafael's fashion magazines, and says she and her friends have to save up for weeks just to buy one. She asks Alberto when they're kissing on the azotea their first night together what people in London are wearing. She's inspired to work what she's seen on the streets of New York into her designs for Dona Aurorita. She knows about Dior and the New Look vs. Balenciaga and the sack dress when Raul is quizzing them, and all the other seamstresses have no idea what he's talking about. Cristina probably knows, because Cristina can buy a plane ticket to fly to Paris on a whim, would be perfectly at ease in either atelier, and can probably just buy herself a haute couture Dior or Balenciaga (using her daddy's money, of course). Even though Ana and her friends spend hours every day sewing dresses like that, they can't afford to buy luxury fabrics or fancy embellishments (like beads, lace, feathers, etc) and they can't afford to spend that kind of time on their own clothes--some couture gowns take 600-800 hours to make, but even if you take half the smaller number and assume Ana spent 2 hours every single night sewing for herself, it would take her about half a year to make a single dress. There is no way she can dress like Cristina. I also like the realistic touch that Ana wardrobe is much smaller, so we see Ana wear the same outfit fairly often. And it evolves: When Ana starts sewing as Philippe Ray she gets a few new dresses, and then when she is a full-fledged designer the quality of her clothes improved again a bit. This season, no matter what you think of the 60s styles, it's certainly true that the difference between Ana and Cristina's clothing is much, much smaller than previously. Ana has moved up a lot economically, and how she dresses reflects that fact, just as it used to reflect the opposite. One tiny more argument for why it's so unfair to minimize Ana's efforts or achievements to get where she is: she is the only person in the show who has really transcended her class. (Well, maybe Luisa too but we haven't really seen her in a while.) Everyone else who has anywhere close to her professional level of success was born into a well-to-do family, either certainly (i.e., we know about it) or almost certainly went to an elite school, may be at a family-owned (or partially-owned) business, or has social connections that make a successful career easier. That doesn't mean that they aren't talent and qualified, but they've already been handed about a hundred unseen opportunities that Ana hasn't had, so it seems kind of stingy to begrudge the fact that Don Emilio sent Ana to Dona Aurorita, where Dona Aurorita said she didn't care. Think about all the connections and favors and advantages and ins--Patricia and Alberto start at Velvet because they inherit it when their dad dies; Alberto hires Mateo because they went to school together in London; when they first try to solve Velvet's money troubles they go to see a banker friend of Mateo's family who owes them some favors (although the news of the bankruptcy is out and it doesn't work); Geraldo Otegui, who knows Alberto and his family from the Madrid social scene and the country club, etc, buys his daughter a marriage; Cristina went to school with Raul, which is how he ends up at Velvet (and how they re-bond after Cristina betrays him on the day of her wedding); Geraldo gives Enrique a job; Enrique uses his social connections to get Carlos (who is upper class) to pull strings with Sara Ortega (who works for her dad); when Geraldo throws Enrique out he gives the job to Cristina (because it has to stay in the family, despite her total lack of qualifications); when Cafiero buys the company he puts his son Marco in charge; Marco and Mateo went to school in London, and the former hazed the latter during the induction into some sort of social club; Patricia tries to use the Italian she learned at boarding school to curry a little more favor; when Mateo leaves Velvet he starts a society magazine, where all his friends and connections I'm sure facilitate his job. Whenever anyone wants to get a story planted in the press, they all know who to call: Raul about Princess Monaco, Cristina about Ana (and Enrique knows the journalist too), Alberto about Cristina (via Mateo), Marco about Mandalay (to go over Mateo's head at his own magazine), etc. Again, I'm not saying this is all bad (though there definitely are the icky moments), but basically it comes down to privilege, and Ana has had very, very little. (e.g., When Raul went off to Paris, did his parents buy his ticket? Did they pay for his apartment? Did he have a job lined up beforehand? When he was training, did he get paid? Did he live off that money? Did he ever work for free/very little as an apprentice? I don't know the answers to any of these questions--and I'm curious to see if we'll find out about any of this with Jonas--but there were very real reasons that Ana stayed in Madrid for the 7 years Alberto was away.)
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 26, 2016 0:58:02 GMT -5
I agree with those who recognize that Ana worked hard to get where she is today. While others dined and went to the bar Ana stayed behind and sewed. I think what we are forgetting is Ana had dreams but maybe she thought she wasn't good enough or how was she going to get her dreams without money. She saw herself as a mere seamstress. Everyone saw she had talent except for Ana. She didn't really belive in herself until Asia. She grew way more confident then. She may have sold many dresses under Philip Ray but she didn't get until later that people were talking about Philip Ray. She was depressed when it failed not because she sought fame, but because no one would ever buy Philip Ray again and she lost her one chance not for fame but probably the money.
Someone mentioned the fact that everything was handed to Alberto, Christina, Marco, Patricio, the whole damn lot of them.
Again I think this was the writers intention. The Downton version of Velvet. We want Ana to be way more independent and rise to the person she's become but Ana has a different opinion of herself. Christina knows who she is because she grew up entitled and confident. She never suspected otherwise. Ana doesn't buy into it just because she still sees herself and Emilio like when she first arrived. "When was it ever easy" was what Emilio always said to her. "Stay true to yourself and just do your best". Maybe if Ana didn't have Emilio maybe she would be different. But what Velvet taught her was that friendship and loyalty was always more important. Ana is rich because she has friends that care and love her. What does Christina have? Nada! What did Mateo say to Marco " it's too bad you don't have any friends at Velvet". Patricia couldn'the find a friend that would take her in.
Ana is way more confident than we give her credit for. Because of that she doesn't need all the entrapments that are often associated with success. It is us who can't abide by not wanting the moon too when you have the sun.
I will often conclude that it's the writers that are keeping Ana humble on purpose to show the light went when Alberto left. The light will return when he comes back. We may not like it intrinsically for what it means in our feminist views of a modern love story but this is the Velvet we stuck around for.
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 26, 2016 1:23:31 GMT -5
Ana the character is so humble.She has a deep sense of responsibility to people around her and to herself.She didn't grow up with much but not phased by it.She is beautiful,talented and strong...with her hardworking nature and the help she got from all the people that loves her,it plummeted her into fame..and she rightfully deserves it.With Her sweet nature that's why these men Alberto,Emilio and Mateo are fighting to make sure the sky is her limit!!❤️.Forgive me if I don't understand the grudge anyone can habouur against this character,with such humble beginnings and success. Case in point with all her fame and money she still lives at the store with her young son,that's the depth of her humility.Hopefully when Alberto gets home,he will buy that big house,they have always wanted.💕
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Post by primusoars on Nov 26, 2016 2:24:47 GMT -5
Ana the character is so humble.She has a deep sense of responsibility to people around her and to herself.She didn't grow up with much but not phased by it.She is beautiful,talented and strong...with her hardworking nature and the help she got from all the people that loves her,it plummeted her into fame..and she rightfully deserves it.With Her sweet nature that's why these men Alberto,Emilio and Mateo are fighting to make sure the sky is her limit!!❤️.Forgive me if I don't understand the grudge anyone can habouur against this character,with such humble beginnings and success. Case in point with all her fame and money she still lives at the store with her young son,that's the depth of her humility.Hopefully when Alberto gets home,he will buy that big house,they have always wanted.💕 I am not holding a grudge against Ana at all, I am holding a grudge against the writers. In the first two seasons her character was beautiful written and I understand that was the Ana Alberto fallen in love with ( the descriptions of Ana by Alberto to Cristina when they play the game of Truth or Dare), the Ana her friends love and the Ana that Enzo Cafio respect. But in S3 and specially S4, we heard she won all kinds of awards but somehow is kind of side notes, do you really feel it for her. It is the job of writers to make the audience feel the story they are writing about, if I don't feet it is not there. All I am saying is Ana is a main character her storyline is most important we need audience rooting for her, we need to feel her pain, her joy, her accomplishments. The writers only have limit amount of screen time it they spend whole lot on nonsense ex. Cristina's planning, her great business ability, her urge to have Carlos marrying Ana, her wedding planing ability so on and so forth, they will be no time for anymore of Ana's character. I am not a conspiracy theorist but this last 2 seasons make me one. In S3 all that drama about Cristina was well established but in S4 we again have the audience watch how crazy she is Again. Where is our most important character other than Alberto? Don't you wonder whose story is? Cristina? Ana?
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 26, 2016 7:47:24 GMT -5
Ana the character is so humble.She has a deep sense of responsibility to people around her and to herself.She didn't grow up with much but not phased by it.She is beautiful,talented and strong...with her hardworking nature and the help she got from all the people that loves her,it plummeted her into fame..and she rightfully deserves it.With Her sweet nature that's why these men Alberto,Emilio and Mateo are fighting to make sure the sky is her limit!!❤️.Forgive me if I don't understand the grudge anyone can habouur against this character,with such humble beginnings and success. Case in point with all her fame and money she still lives at the store with her young son,that's the depth of her humility.Hopefully when Alberto gets home,he will buy that big house,they have always wanted.💕 I am not holding a grudge against Ana at all, I am holding a grudge against the writers. In the first two seasons her character was beautiful written and I understand that was the Ana Alberto fallen in love with ( the descriptions of Ana by Alberto to Cristina when they play the game of Truth or Dare), the Ana her friends love and the Ana that Enzo Cafio respect. But in S3 and specially S4, we heard she won all kinds of awards but somehow is kind of side notes, do you really feel it for her. It is the job of writers to make the audience feel the story they are writing about, if I don't feet it is not there. All I am saying is Ana is a main character her storyline is most important we need audience rooting for her, we need to feel her pain, her joy, her accomplishments. The writers only have limit amount of screen time it they spend whole lot on nonsense ex. Cristina's planning, her great business ability, her urge to have Carlos marrying Ana, her wedding planing ability so on and so forth, they will be no time for anymore of Ana's character. I am not a conspiracy theorist but this last 2 seasons make me one. In S3 all that drama about Cristina was well established but in S4 we again have the audience watch how crazy she is Again. Where is our most important character other than Alberto? Don't you wonder whose story is? Cristina? Ana? I am glad you lay your grudge at the feet of the writers.This story is all about Ana and Alberto. Cristina is a side attraction as far as I am concerned..she is there for the drama.While Ana becomes famous,travels the world and bags awards.Ana may have lost a little shine because of Alberto's absence (mas)..his character complemented hers big time...so there I blame the producers for allowing their lead character to slip away.But it still doesn't minimize her accomplishment...she is also a single mom who has to juggle her job with raising her son..which isn't easy..I can relate to that.She is an independent woman...with all Cristina's beautiful dresses and hair,she does not hold a candle to Ana...you can bet on that.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 26, 2016 8:17:39 GMT -5
The side attraction (Christina) that became the centre of attention in the plot of Velvet. It's very clear to me that Ana's character steadily has become an annodote to the Christina story and we all recognize why. I looked up a picture of the Cape dress and it is beautiful. So this is the dress Christina picked out for Ana? Lovely! I'm sad that Ana didn't design it herself or that such a beautiful dress was wasted on the Carlos wedding. I mean what is she going to wear when she marries Alberto? I wuld have thought it would have been better if she had a far less attractive dress for Carlos wedding and then something spectacular for Albertos' wedding.
What happened to the note that Clara gave her? That should have been given to her before the wedding. Didn't she read it? What was the note about anyway? It's was from Mateo wasn't it so it would have mentioned that maybe Alberto is still alive? I can wait for the english subtitles as I'm missing some context here.
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Post by BK on Nov 26, 2016 13:57:34 GMT -5
Ana the character is so humble.She has a deep sense of responsibility to people around her and to herself.She didn't grow up with much but not phased by it.She is beautiful,talented and strong...with her hardworking nature and the help she got from all the people that loves her,it plummeted her into fame..and she rightfully deserves it.With Her sweet nature that's why these men Alberto,Emilio and Mateo are fighting to make sure the sky is her limit!!❤️.Forgive me if I don't understand the grudge anyone can habouur against this character,with such humble beginnings and success. Case in point with all her fame and money she still lives at the store with her young son,that's the depth of her humility.Hopefully when Alberto gets home,he will buy that big house,they have always wanted.💕 I am not holding a grudge against Ana at all, I am holding a grudge against the writers. In the first two seasons her character was beautiful written and I understand that was the Ana Alberto fallen in love with ( the descriptions of Ana by Alberto to Cristina when they play the game of Truth or Dare), the Ana her friends love and the Ana that Enzo Cafio respect. But in S3 and specially S4, we heard she won all kinds of awards but somehow is kind of side notes, do you really feel it for her. It is the job of writers to make the audience feel the story they are writing about, if I don't feet it is not there. All I am saying is Ana is a main character her storyline is most important we need audience rooting for her, we need to feel her pain, her joy, her accomplishments. The writers only have limit amount of screen time it they spend whole lot on nonsense ex. Cristina's planning, her great business ability, her urge to have Carlos marrying Ana, her wedding planing ability so on and so forth, they will be no time for anymore of Ana's character. I am not a conspiracy theorist but this last 2 seasons make me one. In S3 all that drama about Cristina was well established but in S4 we again have the audience watch how crazy she is Again. Where is our most important character other than Alberto? Don't you wonder whose story is? Cristina? Ana? Yes, Primosaurs, I think you've hit the nail on the head about the vast difference between seasons one and two, and seasons 3 and 4. I suspect that the producers/writers/creators planned out the first two seasons from the beginning: as a few people have said, the series had a really satisfying build-up, climax, and resolution in the last episode, with happy (and complete) endings for all our protagonists. And clearly they only contracted MAS for two seasons, so probably that was the deal with their actors--unless that's the norm in Spain? I don't know. Here in the US for network TV my understanding is that it's standard for actors to sign a 7 season contract from the get-go, but clearly that wasn't true with Velvet. Not knowing what is usual for Spanish TV, I'm just going from my best guess that they had planned out two seasons worth of story. S1 and S2 are clearly thought through as a whole from the beginning, and they're careful about building up all the elements one by one. Character-wise, think of how carefully Cristina is constructed over the two: first sympathetic and fun, but when you re-watch you can see signs of the controlling and privileged, manipulative and selfish person that is revealed as she is put under more and more pressure later on. Whereas in S3 and S4, someone who had a lot of nuance and shades of gray previously--Patricia--has just become a wildly oscillating cipher to me. Did she care for Jonas? Does she love Enrique? Has she had any sort of relationship with Ana? Albertito? Does she want to be a mother at all, and would she ever have wanted to have Valentin's child? Enrique's? When on earth did she become willing to be accessory to a murder? Why does she not seem to know about the plotting against the pret-a-porter line? What would she think of that? I know various theories have been floated on these forums about some of these questions, but WHY ARE THE WRITERS OF THE SHOW NOT PROVIDING THE ANSWERS THEMSELVES. And then, as I think Lara said, there are many other elements of the characters the writers seem to have given up dramatizing at all, and just tell us. I mean, we saw Cristina be in love with Alberto in seasons 1 and 2. In season 4, her motivations don't make any sense at all. I mean, she says she expects to get Alberto after Ana marries Carlos, so then we see her arranging their engagement, wedding, etc etc. But...we don't see her do anything to suggest she ever thinks about Alberto, or has any feelings, or has any reason whatsoever for thinking that Ana wouldn't leave Carlos even if they do get married as soon as she finds out that Alberto is alive. I mean, Alberto left their marriage for Ana. Plus, Alberto annulled his marriage with Cristina months after he broke up with Ana. He said he didn't want to be with her no matter what. In the hospital after he found out she had lied to him about the pregnancy and the child wasn't his, he said she ruined his life and he wished he had never met her. Doesn't seem like a promising relationship to pursue--and there is absolutely no acknowledgement at all that Cristina has any plan to deal with these obstacles, scenes about how she feels about this, etc. The plot and storylines of S1 and 2 are also so much more coherent and well-paced. Not that there aren't any plot holes at all in the first two seasons, but there are SO MANY in these last two that it is really frustrating. I get that MAS's filming schedule proved a huge challenge to the writers. He was committed to Sense8, and probably knew his filming schedule in enough time to know when he had to leave season 3, but I know Netflix took a long time to renew Sense8 for a second season, and I know the filming schedule is really complicated--for those who haven't seen it there are 8 main characters who, at least in the first season, are in 8 different cities on 4 different continents, and not only do the actors have their own storylines to shoot in their own cities, they also appear in each others's, so they have to coordinate traveling from (in MAS's case) from Mexico DF to Seoul, Nairobi, Berlin, Chicago, etc in the right combinations with the other actors, i.e., if MAS appears in Seoul with the actor based there, the scene might also include the actor from Berlin, so they all have to plan accordingly. I mean, it sounds like a nightmare to plan. My understanding is that he didn't get his shooting schedule until quite late, so he couldn't let Bambu know when he would be available or for how long exactly, which made the writers's jobs really difficult. I can't imagine the challenge to write Alberto into the story in the way that would satisfy fans (who obviously would want to get the most out of him as possible), while allowing for the possibility that MAS wouldn't be able to film many scenes at all. You'd have to have a script and a storyline that was incredibly flexible, or you'd just have to settle for planning for the worst (i.e., only including him a little bit at the end). There are some great moments, and a couple of storylines that they're handling okay/well, but for the most part in S3 and especially S4 I think they're doing a pretty terrible job with what they've got. The pacing is way off. In season 3 there are too many episodes where everyone is missing someone...or waiting for someone...saying goodbye to someone...or something. It's similar plot points, yeah, but worse than that it's scene after scene of slow camera movement, slow music, people standing or sitting, gazing into the distance, looking melancholy, etc. The PACE is just the same and on top of that it is a very, very slow one. Think about it: episode 8, Alberto anguishes over Ana's disappearance; episode 9, Alberto anguishes over the end of his relationship with Ana; episode 10, he's anguishing over leaving Velvet, and Ana; episode 11, Ana is anguishing over not being with Alberto; episode 12, Ana anguishes over his possible death, then his (supposed) death; episode 13, Ana spends half the time anguishing over Alberto's death (and her sickness), until she finds out she's pregnant. Seasons 3 and 4 start moving through time in really strange ways--spending two episodes on a day and a half, say--then skipping three months in a montage that doesn't last a minute, then skipping 5 years from one season to the next. That'd be fine I guess if it made the story better, but they don't really seem to be getting much out of these decisions other than scrambling the fictional reality and introducing some weird plot holes. In particular, I hated the way they dealt with the way Ana and Alberto were together. I think they should have been together longer. After all that fighting to get there and how happy they were at first, it just wasn't plausible to me that they'd end the relationship so quickly, and it kind of damages their credibility as a couple that is meant for each other. I'm actually a big A/A fan, the actors in all their scenes are so convincing that they care about each other, they understand each other, they believe in each other's talents and dreams, they like the same things and (unless someone is actively trying to ruin their lives) have a lot of fun and make each other happy, they have a powerful friendship as well as a lot of chemistry/sexual attraction and romanic love. I root for them whether they're partnered, estranged, or just friends. And I think Ana's actual reason for breaking up with Alberto (that he's let himself have opportunities that she hasn't, and they can't be together until she feels like she's lived life in the way he has) could be fairly legit. There were many reasons Ana was so hurt at that Airsa party: Cristina showed up pregnant bragging about her pregnancy and reminding her of the child that would keep Cristina in Alberto's life forever; she embarrassed Ana with information she had that Alberto had kept from her; Alberto slept with Sara, yet another woman who wasn't her, and one he wasn't obliged to sleep with by marriage; she was reminded repeatedly that she and Alberto had to keep their relationship a secret, because they would be judged and it would damage Velvet's business dealings; and Alberto had a familiarity with Sara--he had told her all about his relationship, after all--that Ana knew nothing about. I think she suddenly realized Alberto's world was much bigger than hers, and it wouldn't be easy for her to fit in it. It wasn't jealousy so much as envy that she ultimately felt. Both characters are dreamers and both characters are (at their best) sticklers for a code of ethics--they want to fight for their professional dreams and their love, but by doing it the "right" way and not at the expense of others. Each has betrayed both aspects of themselves at times to be with the other, which is what I've decided they mean most deeply when they say "we've hurt each other a lot." I know a lot of people don't think Ana gave up anything for Alberto in season 1 (even Alberto said that), but I think Ana had already given up her professional ambitions for seven years to wait for Alberto. (I don't think this runs counter to my argument that she is ambitious and achieved all her later success on her own merits--that's why is was such a sacrifice.) Alberto didn't ask her for this, it's true, but she didn't disappear into Paris or move on in any aspect of her life because deep down she wanted to be in Alberto's real "home" when he came back. That's why she said to Luisa that though she thought about trying to open her own shop, in the end she was too attached to Velvet. Then they continue to compromise more and more of their values--for Alberto, his idea of his true love, and for both of them their guilt in doing wrong to Cristina--which is why they end up so far apart in S1. In S2, they start to put things right: Ana lives out her dream of being a designer, Alberto in the end (with the help of his mother) realizes Ana is indeed his true love and he should fight for her. They are honest with the people around them and so they can be together. Then, again because the writers seem to have kind of muddled through the next seasons, while Ana and Alberto stay essentially the same (still idealists in goals and habits), but Ana's sense that she's sacrificed her dreams for the relationship kind of comes out of left field, and it's unclear to me what exactly she wants. She only seems to design? Which she could do with Alberto? She is a pretty clear-eyed person in almost every way--e.g. when she goes barging into Alberto's office demanding that he let her design Cristina's wedding dress again, even though she just found out that they slept together--so the way they've created this obstacle isn't organic to the story. (The sense of cumulative damage is more effectively conveyed, though.) The writers do a better job showing why Alberto needed to leave, why--though it's absolutely true that it would probably never occur to him on his own to sell Velvet--he was happy to accept the offer when it came from Cafiero. He became so bitter and cynical that he didn't even get involved in the runway show the day of the event (i.e., gave up on his dreams). He starting using all the dirty tricks he despised his father for utilizing--hiring the private detective taking pictures of his sister to blackmail her, paying a sketchy guy a ton of money to arrange for his annulment, etc. Alberto was filled with self-loathing, he was acting completely opposite his nature--there was no way he could ever stay at Velvet or be with Ana like that, it was clear to me. My problem is that there didn't seem to be a real catalyzing event, didn't seem to be enough of a reason for such a precipitous and extreme descent into darkness. He was way worse than he ever was even at his unhappiest in his marriage, when he thought he had lost Ana to Carlos. It makes no sense at all to me that he wouldn't think that once Ana had lived life a little they couldn't be together again. They wanted a character to undergo a certain change so they just kind of did it, without building up a reasonable context and motivation, for Ana and for Alberto. They also had a lot of plots that didn't really have much consequence, or story arcs that rose and fell and rose and fell in ways that were too similar to each other. The biggest victims of this were Rita and Pedro: the mother/mother-in-law, the I-want-to-have-a-baby-let's-have-sex, the hostile uterus--in very broad strokes they were all about Rita being a little hard-headed, the couple being pushed to a big fight, Pedro and Rita finally having a conversation (with Rita in all three cases finally sharing feelings/information she had been hiding from Pedro), and a resolution. Only one had real emotional weight--the other two were played for laughs--and Rita is pregnant by the end of the season, so her fertility is only an issue for less than 4 episodes. With such similarities, and such low stakes, I end up feeling like we're just going in circles and wasting our time. Now, onto the topic of plot holes, I don't want to beat a dead horse but a list of just a few: Adele. WTF ever happened to her, why has Ana never wondered why she didn't come for the dresses (or, if she did, why she didn't tell anyone Alberto was alive--and why we didn't see her), and why doesn't Alberto now know that everyone thinks he's dead. Raul just coming out with his first menswear line after talking about it with Enzo Cafiero FIVE YEARS ago. Marco's fiancee. How destroying the locale would be a problem if Ana had a budget to remodel it, and if it was a problem, where they got the money for Pedro and Jonas's supplies after all. Why Alberto has not come to check on Ana or called or even tried addressing a letter to her in her own name, particularly given the fact that they already had the experience of her not getting his letters for years (when he was in London). Did it never occur to him that this just might have happened again? Not even once? Alberto never being in touch with Mateo, since apparently he wanted to know how he was doing. How/why Mateo and Clara are divorced, not separated, when apparently it was so impossible to get divorced in Spain at the time and neither of them seem to want to get married again. Why Petra appeared as a deus ex machina to point out that Emilio should date Blanca and was never developed as a character. I mean, wasn't she supposed to be an old girlfriend or something? We know nothing about that! What happened to Lucia. Why we ever met Jonas's sister in the way we did (i.e., why the scenes were such wasted time--if she comes back and plays an important role, say going to Paris, or taking Jonas's job in the taller, or whatever, fine, but she could have been introduced in a completely different way that actually had some consequence). Whether Clara works at Marco's secretary, or now that his office moved to the other wing (where Victor worked) he has some unknown secretary, and if so why he occasionally threatens Clara as if she were his secretary and that entire dynamic then disappears for weeks and weeks on end--in fact, their whole relationship has one come up once between the two of them after seeming like a big deal. Obviously some of these problems are bigger than others (ALBERTO), but the ones that don't have any external excuse (even if I think they still could have been handled better) are just so sloppy. So sloppy. I don't think this is a matter of US vs. Spanish tv, because the writers weren't careless like this seasons 1 and 2. Random characters did not pop up and disappear without explanation. They did not introduce problems or stories that were never resolved or only existed for one episode and somehow magically didn't matter in the next one. Production values are one thing--Velvet has always had hilariously bad continuity issues, where an object like a cigarette or a coat or a ring will pop up in one shot, disappear in the next, and reappear again--but that's about money and can definitely be attributed to the resources of American tv companies. (For any Grand Hotel fans, I found that show way way worse. Those doorknob sets that didn't have locks that they pretended to "unlock" with a key! Then conveniently sometimes they couldn't lock doors! Doors that constantly changed numbers. Gloves that game and went. Room configurations and closets that changed shape. And all the polyester lace, ayy. What bothered me most during Diego and Alicia's wedding was her damn veil! It looked so cheap and synthetic and wrong for 1906 I couldn't stand it.) But whatever. The writing problems frustrate me more--they make me feel like the creative team never bothered to think seasons 3 and 4 through, and that's a little insulting to us loyal fans (though of course I'm not going to stop watching). As for Ana being the main character, well... There are plenty of shows that are ensembles, rather than having a single protagonist/couple, and I always thought Velvet was one of those. Ana and Alberto are important, but I've realized that as I try to think about Velvet's characters, I end up thinking about all the different sets of people: Ana/Alberto, Alberto/Mateo, Mateo/Clara, Clara/Rita, the Chicas Velvet (variously Ana/Rita/Luisa, Ana/Rita/Luisa/Clara, Ana/Rita/Lucia, Ana/Rita/Clara), Rita/Pedro, Pedro/Jonas, Emilio/Pedro/Jonas, Patricia/Enrique/Valentin, Barbara/Cristina, Marco/Enrique/Cristina, Ana/Emilio, Ana/Raul, Raul/Humberto, Raul/Mateo/Alberto, etc. I think the Ana/Alberto relationship was central because it represented romance, in this case meaning not just love, but an idealized reality. One of the reasons that was so important for Velvet is that fashion is also a dream--especially of haute couture--and it's exciting for us to watch someone fight for something so pure, even if at times it might be a little naive. (This dream business is something Raul talks about with Ana when he finds out she's Philippe Ray, but it's also something lots of people in the fashion world say.) If the writers had done it right, they might have figured out how to balance existing sets of people with new couplings to keep the show in balance. The Chicas Velvet (of Ana/Clara/Rita plus Raul--who I think now should be a permanent honorary member--and Pedro) finally had a scene together, and lots of people gathered by Rita's bedside. The soccer game also united a great gang of people. But there's been a pretty limited set of people we see together, and when each grouping is kind of a character of its own, having everyone on their lonesome makes u s feel like there are fewer actual characters. Ana, until very recently, has mostly been shown with her business adversaries (well, those groupings maybe aren't characters), yelling or being yelled at, or delivering expository information in scenes with Emilio or Carlos. She's been there, and has been given a storyline, it just...isn't emotionally satisfying, which really sucks considering she was essentially the literal heart of the show--not necessarily the main character, but the one who set the mood and the mission for the Galerias where everyone else's stories take place.
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