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Post by primusoars on Nov 25, 2016 12:12:18 GMT -5
ladyfromcanada, you're absolutely right. Cristina never really cared about Velvet, she only went there to be close to Alberto and because she was jealous of Ana. Remember when she told Barbara that they have to prove that they are more valuable to Velvet than Ana? As if they could ever be! She's totally delusional. I really hope we see Cristina go into total meltdown mode when she sees Alberto with Ana and their kid. Ana getting everything Cristina always wanted. I am afraid it will be glossed over though and she will quickly will be at peace with it 🙄 It's definitely odd seeing Patricia drink and smoke while pregnant, but I think they did that in the 1960s. If not drinking, smoking for sure. Patricia doesn't seem to have maternal bone in her body. I think that Patricia really didn't care about the pregnancy , it is an accident she got pregnant with Enrique's child. She smokes, drinks and plus the stress of the evil plan she possibly lost her baby. She seems so misguided all of her life, she is always a very ambivalent character to me. She is very tough, weak, sweet, nasty and very alone till she got together with Enrique. Killing valentine is such a big mistake, she could just be honest and told the truth and have the marriage annulled so she and Enrique can marry each other. Sometimes I think the writers are very confused about the law and ethics at the time or they just write the script however they can bend those laws and ethic. How can Cristina become so acceptable after all she has been doing? I think her character is terribly written, I don't like her for all the illogical actions and her extreme behaviors as if they run out of storylines they have to center on her and give her as much screen time as possible since she is such a great actress. I don't care how great she is ! The storyline is tiring and overused, they are no delicacies in this. We all invest lots of time in this show because it was so beautifully made in S1 and S2 but now it is like patch works that are loosely connected. Mateo and Clara storyline is beautifully written and the romance was so genuine and delicate, I am so glad they replace the romance between Ana/Alberto for the time being. Raul is also another character so well written and excellently performed, he and Humberto's storyline is gentle, heart felt and not forced. The soccer game was hilarious and I loved. Marco's character is not believable, stupid and waste of screen time, they could written it in a more nuance manner not that obvious as how much revenge he wants to make to Ana. On top of that they add Cristina into it, it is just so false and overdone! To few episodes left to correct the mis-opportunities!
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Post by BK on Nov 25, 2016 12:53:24 GMT -5
* Pedro insists that Jonas come over for a boy's night, leaving the last of his work undone, and they drink too much aguardiente. (Also tedious.) They are late and hungover the next morning, and Cristina yells at them and says next time they'd be fired. (Bonus: Pedro mentioned Manolito! And (I think) that he is in Germany.) Later she yells at them some more. (She also yells at Clara. A lot of yelling.) So I watched the episode again, and I wanted to fix a few of my translations. Oh yeah, and Cristina just says that if Pedro and Jonas don't do their jobs quickly she'll fire them--she doesn't explicitly say "next time." Also, Manolito is definitely in Germany. Don Emilio is also sure that he's the only one to project Ana's picture during the fashion show, because he doesn't want Pedro (or anyone else) to put their job at risk. There's a lot of eye contact between Marco and Don Emilio, so I think it's pretty clear Marco knows who's responsible for the public reminder of Ana's involvement. Pedro does say, though, that he's in the same boat, and earlier Dona Blanca says if Don Emilio won't cooperate in staging the show then she won't either, but he convinces her to help Cristina choose the best dresses to make Ana look good. I think they're setting it up so that when Ana leaves (and probably Don Emilio gets fired, or maybe quits, but his firing might be the thing that pushes Ana over the edge), some employees might quit alongside him while others might stay (and maybe act as moles of some sort?). I'd guess Blanca leaves, Pedro and Rita stay (for economic reasons, probably), Jonas prepares for Paris, Clara might play spy, Raul...well, I guess he's done with the menswear collection anyway. I don't know. All this is supposition, of course. Oh also, this is kind of an answer to some questions that have been floating around for weeks: when Marco is losing his shit after Ana wins her award, Enrique says who really cares, what's good for Ana is good for Velvet, and money is money wherever it comes from, so Marco should just calm down. When Marco goes storming out, Enrique stays behind sipping his whiskey with the most amazing expression on his face. Finally, someone is playing an actual businessman. And however despicable Enrique is (and he is!), I can't help but love him in this moment. Marco then, of course, goes to Cristina where they work on their personal vendetta against Ana. At the point later in the episode when Marco says he sees he's not the only enemy Ana has at Velvet, something kind of clicked for me in making his character's motivation have more rationality and consistency: he has been developed this season to be the male Cristina. His arc is the same as her's in season 3. Just as she showed up as the evil witch in S3E1, so did Marco burst on to the scene as the bad guy. They have a lot in common: despite what Marco said last season (about Ana being more valuable because she earned her place on her own merits, while Cristina's just her daddy's girl), they both actually are where they are because of their fathers (I know someone mentioned this a while ago). They both are both extremely entitled--used to being the king of the hill/belle of the ball because of their social position, family's power, and the ability each has developed to manipulate people around them to get what they want. The bully and the mean girl, two peas in a pod. But neither has succeeded in stopping Ana from taking what they themselves want. She's gotten what they think they deserve (or really, what is due to them). In Cristina's case, Alberto primarily of course, but also the sympathy of Raul, etc. I think part of her hatred is the idea that someone could love Ana instead of her. For Marco, it's that Ana is actually making better decisions, that she's earned his father's respect over him, that she's being recognized in his place as the brains behind Velvet's savvy business moves. For both of them when they've been at their most upset, they way they've represented their feelings is in large part about appearances--remember Cristina kept on saying to Albert "you've humiliated me"? Meaning, you're making me look bad. (I think, also, you've hurt my pride--she also says you're throwing away your life for that seamstress.) And Marco this episode says I'll show everyone who's really the leader of Velvet (or something like that). He wants recognition of others. The fact that Ana--"just" a seamstress and "just" a woman--has proven invincible to either of them has now pushed them both totally off the deep end. Marco has spent episodes shooting himself in the foot by trying to stop the ready-to-wear line, and I doubt he has his dad's permission for much of anything he's doing now. I suspect that when Enzo Cafiero finds out about most of what Marco is doing he's going to jerked back to Italy asap, if not actually get the boot. And Cristina, ayy. She was legit crazy again in this episode--caressing the pictures of wedding dresses, grilling Carlos about how he wanted Ana's makeup done (seriously, wtf?), throwing temper tantrums left and right, and those eyes! Ladyfromcanada you are so right about that abyss of madness. But Marco wasn't far off--his eyes and smile were almost as deranged as hers. Am I crazy myself for finding these wild, over-the-top versions more fun than the drier, drearier plotting Marco and Cristina, however much more "real" they probably were?
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Post by Love/hate season 4 on Nov 25, 2016 12:56:15 GMT -5
Maybe there is some truth to the agreement that in 5 years Alberto would return to Velvet. Marco has been acting on his belief that Alberto cannot return as he is dead. This makes him bold with not conscience. He feels he do whatever he wants. He also is in for a shock.
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Post by Lara on Nov 25, 2016 13:44:31 GMT -5
ladyfromcanada, you're absolutely right. Cristina never really cared about Velvet, she only went there to be close to Alberto and because she was jealous of Ana. Remember when she told Barbara that they have to prove that they are more valuable to Velvet than Ana? As if they could ever be! She's totally delusional. I really hope we see Cristina go into total meltdown mode when she sees Alberto with Ana and their kid. Ana getting everything Cristina always wanted. I am afraid it will be glossed over though and she will quickly will be at peace with it 🙄 It's definitely odd seeing Patricia drink and smoke while pregnant, but I think they did that in the 1960s. If not drinking, smoking for sure. Patricia doesn't seem to have maternal bone in her body. I think that Patricia really didn't care about the pregnancy , it is an accident she got pregnant with Enrique's child. She smokes, drinks and plus the stress of the evil plan she possibly lost her baby. She seems so misguided all of her life, she is always a very ambivalent character to me. She is very tough, weak, sweet, nasty and very alone till she got together with Enrique. Killing valentine is such a big mistake, she could just be honest and told the truth and have the marriage annulled so she and Enrique can marry each other. Sometimes I think the writers are very confused about the law and ethics at the time or they just write the script however they can bend those laws and ethic. How can Cristina become so acceptable after all she has been doing? I think her character is terribly written, I don't like her for all the illogical actions and her extreme behaviors as if they run out of storylines they have to center on her and give her as much screen time as possible since she is such a great actress. I don't care how great she is ! The storyline is tiring and overused, they are no delicacies in this. We all invest lots of time in this show because it was so beautifully made in S1 and S2 but now it is like patch works that are loosely connected. Mateo and Clara storyline is beautifully written and the romance was so genuine and delicate, I am so glad they replace the romance between Ana/Alberto for the time being. Raul is also another character so well written and excellently performed, he and Humberto's storyline is gentle, heart felt and not forced. The soccer game was hilarious and I loved. Marco's character is not believable, stupid and waste of screen time, they could written it in a more nuance manner not that obvious as how much revenge he wants to make to Ana. On top of that they add Cristina into it, it is just so false and overdone! To few episodes left to correct the mis-opportunities! Patricia was truly a character they had no clue what to do with and it showed. They have a habit of telling us what we are supposed to be seeing that actually doesn't look like what they describe at all. Patricia/Enrique always looked like some sleazy booty call between two horny people. Emilio and Blanca have always appeared to have a nice friendship but nothing more. Yet, now they are pushing a romance that I still don't see. Carlos and Ana, the same thing, Carlos doesn't show any love towards Ana to be remotely obsessed with her. Cristina is another character who I feel they had no clue what to do with this season, that's mainly because she outlived her usefulness. I personally think the actress is very one note, but to each their own if some think she's great. One of the things I've come to realize about her storyline this season is that it is missing motivation. Once again, they TELL us it's about Alberto, however, since he isn't actually on the show it is hard to connect the two without the writers at least trying to reinforce it. It's already a little far fetched that she's still has that level of obsession after 6 years. Cristina hasn't spoken about Alberto in many episodes (how about confiding in Carlos why she is still so obsessed with him, even discuss the past, her plans?), she hasn't taken steps to at least see him or research what he's been up to, I can totally see her hiring a private detective or flying to NY to get information about him. She hasn't taken any extra special interest in his son, something that she desperately wanted to give him and on top of everything else, we don't really know her intentions beyond one line saying she wants to contact him. It all just seems like she is plotting without any real purpose. If I just saw her this season minus the Carlos scenes, I wouldn't think Alberto was still an issue for her. I'm sure it's difficult because Alberto's physically not there, but they needed to re-establish the obsessive connection beyond her reacting like pavlov's dog at the mention of his name if they wanted to go down this road once again. She actually seems more obsessed with Ana these past 2 seasons than with Alberto. Even though it's Marco who is initiating the professional sabotage that she is happily going along with. After the show, Ana has to realize she is no real friend and doesn't want to make amends. That's the thing though, when I think about it, Ana hasn't even had a lot of scenes with Cristina this season either. It's just a whole disconnect for me to reconcile the storyline. I think Mateo and Clara and Rita and Pedro have both had better romances on the show than the supposed main characters. Certainly more heartfelt moments. Even if MAS was back for the entire S4, there is no guarantee that A/A would have been together until the end. I don't know why the show was so against allowing them to be together, which should have been a done deal in S3. Maybe because they would have to come up with something new for them. BK, I'm so glad Enrique said that because it really needed to be said! I have to admit, Enrique has had some of the best moments on Velvet. He was the one who finally told to Cristina to wake up and realize why Alberto married her. She said that about the make-up, wtf? She is crazy! I couldn't stand watching her boss the employees around. I'm sad Mateo got fired only because I'm tired of Ana getting these men to do anything at their own great personal sacrifice. She wins, they lose. At this point, I do feel Ana shares some similarities with Cristina and Marco. Ana is absolutely a hard worker, Cristina is not, but Ana has been handed things too. For some reason she has never seemed that motivated. She was described as tenacious, but it never showed on screen in my opinion. Phillipe Ray came about because of Don Emilio. Her entire design career from there was due to Alberto giving her the opportunities. She would have returned to being a seamstress after Airsa if he didn't keep her on and talk her into the collaboration with Raul. In fact he talked her into Airsa too! This time she needed Mateo to help and and he ended up losing his job. I know he Mateo will move onto better things 😉 But I wanted to see a more independent Ana this season who doesn't always need saving, usually from a man. Instead they made her worse. She won't even stop a wedding she knows is wrong to go through with. The writers really are unimaginative, so I agree Marco is probably the male Cristina, same as Carlos.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 25, 2016 15:15:08 GMT -5
I think that Patricia really didn't care about the pregnancy , it is an accident she got pregnant with Enrique's child. She smokes, drinks and plus the stress of the evil plan she possibly lost her baby. She seems so misguided all of her life, she is always a very ambivalent character to me. She is very tough, weak, sweet, nasty and very alone till she got together with Enrique. Killing valentine is such a big mistake, she could just be honest and told the truth and have the marriage annulled so she and Enrique can marry each other. Sometimes I think the writers are very confused about the law and ethics at the time or they just write the script however they can bend those laws and ethic. How can Cristina become so acceptable after all she has been doing? I think her character is terribly written, I don't like her for all the illogical actions and her extreme behaviors as if they run out of storylines they have to center on her and give her as much screen time as possible since she is such a great actress. I don't care how great she is ! The storyline is tiring and overused, they are no delicacies in this. We all invest lots of time in this show because it was so beautifully made in S1 and S2 but now it is like patch works that are loosely connected. Mateo and Clara storyline is beautifully written and the romance was so genuine and delicate, I am so glad they replace the romance between Ana/Alberto for the time being. Raul is also another character so well written and excellently performed, he and Humberto's storyline is gentle, heart felt and not forced. The soccer game was hilarious and I loved. Marco's character is not believable, stupid and waste of screen time, they could written it in a more nuance manner not that obvious as how much revenge he wants to make to Ana. On top of that they add Cristina into it, it is just so false and overdone! To few episodes left to correct the mis-opportunities! Patricia was truly a character they had no clue what to do with and it showed. They have a habit of telling us what we are supposed to be seeing that actually doesn't look like what they describe at all. Patricia/Enrique always looked like some sleazy booty call between two horny people. Emilio and Blanca have always appeared to have a nice friendship but nothing more. Yet, now they are pushing a romance that I still don't see. Carlos and Ana, the same thing, Carlos doesn't show any love towards Ana to be remotely obsessed with her. Cristina is another character who I feel they had no clue what to do with this season, that's mainly because she outlived her usefulness. I personally think the actress is very one note, but to each their own if some think she's great. One of the things I've come to realize about her storyline this season is that it is missing motivation. Once again, they TELL us it's about Alberto, however, since he isn't actually on the show it is hard to connect the two without the writers at least trying to reinforce it. It's already a little far fetched that she's still has that level of obsession after 6 years. Cristina hasn't spoken about Alberto in many episodes (how about confiding in Carlos why she is still so obsessed with him, even discuss the past, her plans?), she hasn't taken steps to at least see him or research what he's been up to, I can totally see her hiring a private detective or flying to NY to get information about him. She hasn't taken any extra special interest in his son, something that she desperately wanted to give him and on top of everything else, we don't really know her intentions beyond one line saying she wants to contact him. It all just seems like she is plotting without any real purpose. If I just saw her this season minus the Carlos scenes, I wouldn't think Alberto was still an issue for her. I'm sure it's difficult because Alberto's physically not there, but they needed to re-establish the obsessive connection beyond her reacting like pavlov's dog at the mention of his name if they wanted to go down this road once again. She actually seems more obsessed with Ana these past 2 seasons than with Alberto. Even though it's Marco who is initiating the professional sabotage that she is happily going along with. After the show, Ana has to reaslize she is no real friend and doesn't want to make amends. That's the thing though, when I think about it, Ana hasn't even had a lot of scenes with Cristina this season either. It's just a whole disconnect for me to reconcile the storyline. I think Mateo and Clara and Rita and Pedro have both had better romances on the show than the supposed main characters. Certainly more heartfelt moments. Even if MAS was back for the entire S4, there is no guarantee that A/A would have been together until the end. I don't know why the show was so against allowing them to be together, which should have been a done deal in S3. Maybe because they would have to come up with something new for them. BK, I'm so glad Enrique said that because it really needed to be said! I have to admit, Enrique has had some of the best moments on Velvet. He was the one who finally told to Cristina to wake up and realize why Alberto married her. She said that about the make-up, wtf? She is crazy! I couldn't stand watching her boss the emploves around. I'm sad Mateo got fired only because I'm tired of Ana getting these men to do anything at their own great personal sacrifice. She wins, they lose. At this point, I do feel Ana shares some similarities with Cristina and Marco. Ana is absolutely a hard worker, Cristina is not, but Ana has been handed things too. For some reason she has never seemed that motivated. She was described as tenacious, but it never showed on screen in my opinion. Phillipe Ray came about because of Don Emilio. Her entire design career from there was due to Alberto giving her the opportunities. She would have returned to being a seamstress after Airsa if he didn't keep her on and talk her into the collaboration with Raul. In fact he talked her into Airsa too! This time she needed Mateo to help and and he ended up losing his job. I know he Mateo will move onto better things 😉 But I wanted to see a more independent Ana this season who doesn't always need saving, usually from a man. Instead they made her worse. She won't even stop a wedding she knows is wrong to go through with. The writers really are unimaginative, so I agree Marco is probably the male Cristina, same as Carlos. You are absolutely right about Ana. The writers couldn't care less to show her independence, her determination, her design ability. They wasted too much screen time on other things. Ana's outfit that she wore talking to Marco is terrible so matronly. I am really start to wonder what the hell is the designer doing to Ana's outfit! Is just so undeveloped like her character. They spend so much wasted energy on others why not her !!
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Post by Lara on Nov 25, 2016 16:04:33 GMT -5
Patricia was truly a character they had no clue what to do with and it showed. They have a habit of telling us what we are supposed to be seeing that actually doesn't look like what they describe at all. Patricia/Enrique always looked like some sleazy booty call between two horny people. Emilio and Blanca have always appeared to have a nice friendship but nothing more. Yet, now they are pushing a romance that I still don't see. Carlos and Ana, the same thing, Carlos doesn't show any love towards Ana to be remotely obsessed with her. Cristina is another character who I feel they had no clue what to do with this season, that's mainly because she outlived her usefulness. I personally think the actress is very one note, but to each their own if some think she's great. One of the things I've come to realize about her storyline this season is that it is missing motivation. Once again, they TELL us it's about Alberto, however, since he isn't actually on the show it is hard to connect the two without the writers at least trying to reinforce it. It's already a little far fetched that she's still has that level of obsession after 6 years. Cristina hasn't spoken about Alberto in many episodes (how about confiding in Carlos why she is still so obsessed with him, even discuss the past, her plans?), she hasn't taken steps to at least see him or research what he's been up to, I can totally see her hiring a private detective or flying to NY to get information about him. She hasn't taken any extra special interest in his son, something that she desperately wanted to give him and on top of everything else, we don't really know her intentions beyond one line saying she wants to contact him. It all just seems like she is plotting without any real purpose. If I just saw her this season minus the Carlos scenes, I wouldn't think Alberto was still an issue for her. I'm sure it's difficult because Alberto's physically not there, but they needed to re-establish the obsessive connection beyond her reacting like pavlov's dog at the mention of his name if they wanted to go down this road once again. She actually seems more obsessed with Ana these past 2 seasons than with Alberto. Even though it's Marco who is initiating the professional sabotage that she is happily going along with. After the show, Ana has to reaslize she is no real friend and doesn't want to make amends. That's the thing though, when I think about it, Ana hasn't even had a lot of scenes with Cristina this season either. It's just a whole disconnect for me to reconcile the storyline. I think Mateo and Clara and Rita and Pedro have both had better romances on the show than the supposed main characters. Certainly more heartfelt moments. Even if MAS was back for the entire S4, there is no guarantee that A/A would have been together until the end. I don't know why the show was so against allowing them to be together, which should have been a done deal in S3. Maybe because they would have to come up with something new for them. BK, I'm so glad Enrique said that because it really needed to be said! I have to admit, Enrique has had some of the best moments on Velvet. He was the one who finally told to Cristina to wake up and realize why Alberto married her. She said that about the make-up, wtf? She is crazy! I couldn't stand watching her boss the emploves around. I'm sad Mateo got fired only because I'm tired of Ana getting these men to do anything at their own great personal sacrifice. She wins, they lose. At this point, I do feel Ana shares some similarities with Cristina and Marco. Ana is absolutely a hard worker, Cristina is not, but Ana has been handed things too. For some reason she has never seemed that motivated. She was described as tenacious, but it never showed on screen in my opinion. Phillipe Ray came about because of Don Emilio. Her entire design career from there was due to Alberto giving her the opportunities. She would have returned to being a seamstress after Airsa if he didn't keep her on and talk her into the collaboration with Raul. In fact he talked her into Airsa too! This time she needed Mateo to help and and he ended up losing his job. I know he Mateo will move onto better things 😉 But I wanted to see a more independent Ana this season who doesn't always need saving, usually from a man. Instead they made her worse. She won't even stop a wedding she knows is wrong to go through with. The writers really are unimaginative, so I agree Marco is probably the male Cristina, same as Carlos. You are absolutely right about Ana. The writers couldn't care less to show her independence, her determination, her design ability. They wasted too much screen time on other things. Ana's outfit that she wore talking to Marco is terrible so matronly. I am really start to wonder what the hell is the designer doing to Ana's outfit! Is just so undeveloped like her character. They spend so much wasted energy on others why not her !! OMG, that outfit is the one I've been talking about and it might be the ugliest she has ever worn! I think it looks like a maternity top worn backwards. She is way to matronly looking this season, that is part of the reason I'm not sure I can still picture her with Alberto. There's not supposed to be an age difference, but she might look older than him styled this way. I'm glad that she at least loses that horrible wig for the wedding. The writers really didn't develop Cristina much either. They never dug into why she was so obsessed with Alberto, what she knew or didn't know about his proposal and Ana or her narcissistic personality disorder, which she clearly has had for all 4 seasons. The problem is she bested Ana 9/10 times. She won't win the war, but she won most of the battles and that's no fun to watch, at least not her character. She isn't exactly a love to hate character, she is hate/hate. Ana was a missed opportunity because they really didn't show her stand on her two feet, which this last season was PERFECT for. Up until the end she is still living a boring life, making bad decisions, still needing to be rescued and still being victimized.
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Post by tropikaldawl on Nov 25, 2016 16:14:26 GMT -5
I know most people on here feel Cristina has an alliance with Carlos because she wants Alberto back. And while I do believe that she does want to explore this, my perspective has always been that her main motivation is really for both Ana and Alberto to suffer and feel the way they made her feel, the pain and heartache they inflicted on her. Once Ana marries Carlos it will be the same situation as in season 1, this time reversed, with Ana married away and Alberto left pining and alone. To me this fits in with her weird obsession to plan Ana's wedding.
Of course neither of them (Carlos/Cristina) realize that the circumstances are different. Alberto needed money. Ana's only reason is to have a father for her child, but there is no reason for it to be Carlos per say. Even if she were to marry Carlos, I don't see why he thinks he can retain her as his wife once the truth emerges. It seems like there is nothing that can really stop Ana and Alberto from being together. I wonder if their reunion will be like he first episode where she questions why she never heard from him or whether she will be so ecstatic that none of the details will really matter to her.
It does bug me how Ana usually puts her own well being aside and her big decisions are selfless or self-righteous acts that often cause more harm than good.
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Post by Lara on Nov 25, 2016 16:51:56 GMT -5
I know most people on here feel Cristina has an alliance with Carlos because she wants Alberto back. And while I do believe that she does want to explore this, my perspective has always been that her main motivation is really for both Ana and Alberto to suffer and feel the way they made her feel, the pain and heartache they inflicted on her. Once Ana marries Carlos it will be the same situation as in season 1, this time reversed, with Ana married away and Alberto left pining and alone. To me this fits in with her weird obsession to plan Ana's wedding. Of course neither of them (Carlos/Cristina) realize that the circumstances are different. Alberto needed money. Ana's only reason is to have a father for her child, but there is no reason for it to be Carlos per say. Even if she were to marry Carlos, I don't see why he thinks he can retain her as his wife once the truth emerges. It seems like there is nothing that can really stop Ana and Alberto from being together. I wonder if their reunion will be like he first episode where she questions why she never heard from him or whether she will be so ecstatic that none of the details will really matter to her. It does bug me how Ana usually puts her own well being aside and her big decisions are selfless or self-righteous acts that often cause more harm than good. I disagree with you precisely because of what you wrote. Cristina read Alberto's last letter to Ana, she knows Alberto is left pining and alone right now. Her revenge would be letting him stay that way and Ana in a loveless marriage. Confirming Ana is married might set Alberto free to finally move on with his life. I think that is more likely a motivation for Cristina, though I wish they would explicitly state what her plan is. At this point, Cristina has inflicted so much more pain on A/A then vice versa. Everything that happened to them leads directly back to her. So they've definitely paid the price for their initial deceit. It's also important to note that in the end Gerardo (who's idea it was anyway) got a piece of Velvet that seems to their only family asset. So they benefited too. Cristina got a job, income and got to live out her fantasy with Alberto for a little while. It wasn't a total loss. I have to believe they will address why she didn't hear from him since Carlos stole the letters. The lack of phone calls or a visit back should be addressed, I already know it won't make sense. Ana seems like a maryr, but I think those who seek to protect her and give her everything is who suffers the most. Alberto gave up his business and left depressed because of/for her, Emilio has risked his job several times and Mateo has now lost his job. Seems in this aspect, Ana is telfon while those around her go under.
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Post by Camille on Nov 25, 2016 17:04:04 GMT -5
* We see Ecos de la Sociedad with Ana on the cover (and hear that Velvet Collections has been open a week and dresses are selling like hotcakes), but I wasn't totally clear on this: I though we hear Mateo joking a couple of times about being fired, but that there isn't any actual news? ... * I wasn't totally sure how we were supposed to read this, but Pedro seemed to spend a lot of time gawking at attractive women. He said he was so surprised by how short their skirts were. Also, there was a stream of young women coming in looking for Ana's pret-a-porter line (only to be sent off to Dona Aurorita's), and they definitely weren't the average Velvet customer. I wasn't able to understand if anything that he or Jonas said clarified whether this was about the youth/new fashions or some marriage/sex thing with Pedro.(?) Either way, kind of tedious. * Pedro insists that Jonas come over for a boy's night, leaving the last of his work undone, and they drink too much aguardiente. (Also tedious.) They are late and hungover the next morning, and Cristina yells at them and says next time they'd be fired. (Bonus: Pedro mentioned Manolito! And (I think) that he is in Germany.) Later she yells at them some more. (She also yells at Clara. A lot of yelling.) ... * At the beginning of the pret-a-porter show, Marco said that he had won the biggest prize in fashion in Italy, but that it was more important for him to be at Velvet "putting the customers first" by showing Spain's first ready-to-wear line, which he created, so he sent Ana in his place. He then thanked Cristina for her excellent job selecting that night's fashion. * After the show, Cristina and Marco take bows to applause, then Don Emilio changes the slide so Ana's face is projected behind Marco and the crowd goes wild. He's pissed, but he twists it back around: acknowledging Ana for her great role "on the team," thanking all of the employees of Velvet, recognizing his father's work, and then thanking him (Enzo) for putting him (Marco) in charge of this successful business that he (Marco) has brought to greatness. (The employees do not clap for this last one.) * Right before the police come, Cristina introduces Marco to an important man (I didn't catch name/who he was exactly) and his wife, who it becomes clear Marco plans to sell Velvet to. They leave, but the man promises to set up a meeting. So I watched the episode again, and I wanted to fix a few of my translations. First, Mateo has definitely been fired, even though the edition of the magazine with Ana on the cover sold twice the normal amount. Second, Pedro's gawking definitely is combined with a lot of commentary between him and Jonas about the new line being so different fashion-wise (and they continue to discuss this later, with just the dresses present, not the women in them), that I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take this as being about a revolution in the type of Velvet customer and type of design Ana is doing, not anything sexual on Pedro's part. (Phew! That's a storyline I don't really want to see explored, personally.) Third, when I listen to Marco's speech again, I noticed that he said he chose not to go to Italy to collect an award that THEY (he said we, of course) had received at Velvet. So it wasn't quite as blatant a lie, but he definitely insinuated that he had earned it. (I also gathered from a phone conversation in Italian at the beginning of the episode that he wasn't even invited to Ana's awards ceremony--an extra insult. I don't speak Italian, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said--it was pretty similar to Spanish and relatively simple sentences.) Also, his speech at the end, after Ana's picture was shown, was even more genius than I remembered, so once the subtitles come you're in for a treat! Fourth, the couple that Marco and Cristina want to sell Velvet to (because they are definitely co-conspirators in this, on second viewing) are no necessarily friends of Cristina; in fact, I think Marco calls them earlier in the episode (we see the end of a phone call where he confirms that someone is coming to the show). But it doesn't matter too much--all we really learn about them is their name (which I didn't catch), that they loved the show, that they think the pret-a-porter line was a great business risk that is really going to pay off (and maybe that they think, due to Marco's speech, that it was his business acumen that led to this, although he also says something about Velvet continuing to be great, so maybe the writers have left the door open a crack to some ambiguity?), and that he'll have his secretary call to set up a meeting. Thanks BK for the translations and the updates. I'm glad to hear that the potential buyer of Velvet are not friends of Christina's which means there is a possibility the buyers could be sent on behalf of Alberto under disguise. I don't think Marco or Christina would willingly sell Velvet to Alberto because they both know it will be a win for Ana. Alberto buying back Velvet would be great for Ana and Mateo. Alberto would support Ana and Mateo can directo of Velvet again.
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Post by dalovelee on Nov 25, 2016 19:26:09 GMT -5
why is christen planning Ana wedding tooo weird How does Carlos NOT know that Rita and Clara are Ana's best friends and if ANYONE should be planning Ana's wedding it would be these too. To me that should make Ana definitely say this Carlos is all WRONG for me. as for MAS not appearing in episode 8. Hmm I feel like the viewers, the fans have been totally conned. There's only 11 episodes ..Uh, so when is anything going to happen?
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 25, 2016 20:07:15 GMT -5
why is christen planning Ana wedding tooo weird How does Carlos NOT know that Rita and Clara are Ana's best friends and if ANYONE should be planning Ana's wedding it would be these too. To me that should make Ana definitely say this Carlos is all WRONG for me. as for MAS not appearing in episode 8. Hmm I feel like the viewers, the fans have been totally conned. There's only 11 episodes ..Uh, so when is anything going to happen? Cristina planning Ana's wedding is absolutely mind boggling..Carlos walked into it when he connived with the viper(Cristina)to hide Alberto's letters.I don't think Ana is aware that's how oblivious she is,its unimaginable.Her worst enemy is planning her wedding ranging from the ugly gown to menu..ugh!!Carlos has a lot of explaining to do. I am not sure about viewers been conned..Mas picked up another job somewhere..which greatly minimized his part in season 4.I guess the showrunners didn't anticipate the impact of his absence on the show..otherwise they should have made a better deal with the actor to keep him for season 4.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 25, 2016 20:31:22 GMT -5
How does Carlos NOT know that Rita and Clara are Ana's best friends and if ANYONE should be planning Ana's wedding it would be these too. To me that should make Ana definitely say this Carlos is all WRONG for me. as for MAS not appearing in episode 8. Hmm I feel like the viewers, the fans have been totally conned. There's only 11 episodes ..Uh, so when is anything going to happen? Cristina planning Ana's wedding is absolutely mind boggling..Carlos walked into it when he connived with the viper(Cristina)to hide Alberto's letters.I don't think Ana is aware that's how oblivious she is,its unimaginable.Her worst enemy is planning her wedding ranging from the ugly gown to menu..ugh!!Carlos has a lot of explaining to do. I am not sure about viewers been conned..Mas picked up another job somewhere..which greatly minimized his part in season 4.I guess the showrunners didn't anticipate the impact of his absence on the show..otherwise they should have made a better deal with the actor to keep him for season 4. I think that viewers got conned because the show was not make clear that MAS is only going to be on the show very little time. How little was never specified. Now we only have 3 episodes left no sight of Alberto. That's why we feel conned.
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Post by BK on Nov 25, 2016 21:06:39 GMT -5
You are absolutely right about Ana. The writers couldn't care less to show her independence, her determination, her design ability. They wasted too much screen time on other things. Ana's outfit that she wore talking to Marco is terrible so matronly. I am really start to wonder what the hell is the designer doing to Ana's outfit! Is just so undeveloped like her character. They spend so much wasted energy on others why not her !! I'm sad Mateo got fired only because I'm tired of Ana getting these men to do anything at their own great personal sacrifice. She wins, they lose. At this point, I do feel Ana shares some similarities with Cristina and Marco. Ana is absolutely a hard worker, Cristina is not, but Ana has been handed things too. For some reason she has never seemed that motivated. She was described as tenacious, but it never showed on screen in my opinion. Phillipe Ray came about because of Don Emilio. Her entire design career from there was due to Alberto giving her the opportunities. She would have returned to being a seamstress after Airsa if he didn't keep her on and talk her into the collaboration with Raul. In fact he talked her into Airsa too! This time she needed Mateo to help and and he ended up losing his job. I know he Mateo will move onto better things 😉 But I wanted to see a more independent Ana this season who doesn't always need saving, usually from a man. Instead they made her worse. She won't even stop a wedding she knows is wrong to go through with. The writers really are unimaginative, so I agree Marco is probably the male Cristina, same as Carlos. Ooh, I really disagree about this, guys. Anyone who has achieved any sort of success has had some break along the way (e.g., for an actor, the chance to audition, for an author, a chance to submit their manuscript to an editor, for a start-up, the chance to pitch their idea to an investor, etc). Don Emilio called Dona Aurorita, sure, but what I remember is that when Ana walked in she immediately said it didn't matter who her uncle was, she never took dresses from seamstresses. Ana opened her dress bag anyway, and when Dona Aurorita saw the dress she changed her mind and said she'd keep the it for a one week trial period but only continue carrying her work in the store if it sold really well. And it did, it sold twice that day, so Ana had to make them overnight, after a full day of work and before the next. Sure, her uncle steered her to Dona Aurorita, but basically the only help he provided was the name of a shop that would give her a chance. She succeeded as Philippe Ray--and she really built a name for herself that had Madrid buzzing (remember, Raul and Mateo knew Philippe Ray; Valentin said that was his sister's favorite designer; Sara Ortega wanted to know who he was)--because people bought her designs or when they saw them in magazines they liked them. In terms of her tenacity, she--along with Rita and Luisa and eventually Jonas, of course--seemed to be making something like 10 dresses a week. To make more than a dress by hand, every day, for months on end, in addition to full time work, shopping for materials, delivering the dresses, and coming up with new designs, etc is a ton of work. (Also, Ana (or at least one of them) realized that Luisa wearing the dress for the St. Valentine's Day radio event would be good publicity, which was savvy marketing.) I see that as Ana taking advantage of the tiniest crumb of an opportunity and working very hard to become a known designer against the odds in a pretty short amount of time. As for the Airsa uniforms, Alberto had only TWO DAYS to get a designer to come up with a proposal for the meeting, so he needed Ana more than she needed him. (Before Enrique sprang this deadline on him, Alberto had a list of ideas for other designers but knew none of them would consider working under those conditions.) Moreover, the reason that he thought of her at all is that he believed in Ana's talent--remember, technically he gave everyone in the taller a chance to design the uniforms, and both he and Mateo thought all the other sketches were terrible. It's true he pushed her to do it when she didn't want to at first, but her hesitation doesn't seem like something that should be held against her ambition since Ana told her uncle she was afraid Alberto was giving her the job because of their relationship. When Emilio told her that she was the one mixing feelings with work, she decided to submit her drawing(s) precisely because it was such a good opportunity for her as a designer, one should couldn't pass up even though she was so reluctant to work with him. And regardless of what Alberto thought, they wouldn't have sealed the deal with Airsa if Sara Ortega and her father--two very demanding, impartial parties--didn't believe in her designs. In fact, they almost lost the contract when Ana changed her design at Enrique and that crazy-designer-in-the-wheelchair-who-could-walk-whose-name-I-forget's "request." So sure, the Airsa opportunity was a bit of a lucky break, but one that Enrique precipitated as well as Alberto, and most importantly: it doesn't matter if you get an audition if you don't have the goods. Her success was far from guaranteed--in fact, Enrique was working as hard as possible to be sure that the project would fail. (Also, the chance to submit designs for the contract was a lucky break for Velvet--it brought it some much needed cash flow--and while Enrique took credit for bringing the opportunity in, I think there's at least a chance that Carlos just pulled the strings for Enrique so he had an excuse to hang around Velvet, so this could kind of be a case of Ana making her own luck.) Ana had no choice but to go back to being a seamstress after designing the Airsa uniforms. (I mean, unless she wanted to quit.) She was an employee of the gallery at that point--and hadn't been given a promotion despite her work on Airsa--though she did continue selling her dresses to Dona Aurorita. (It was after the total failure of her half of the de la Riva/Ray collection that she tried to demote herself.) But in terms of Alberto "giving" her the job working with Raul, sure, but he also "gave" Raul the job working with Ana. As director, he hired designers. Plus, he hired her because of the fact that she'd already become the hot new thing as Philippe Ray, and because she could motivate and work with Raul under pressure to come out a new collection asap. (If anything, by not having her do a solo collection Alberto either hedged his bets or showed less confidence in her than he had in Raul.) Everyone, including the many who didn't know Philippe Ray was Ana, thought securing that contract with "him" for Velvet was a great move. Strongly believing in her talent is not only a personal issue, it makes fundamental professional sense: it should be at the core of their director-designer relationship. Trusting in any particular designer's talent and giving her an opportunity to prove herself (as Ana eventually did with bells on), was Alberto's job as the head of a design house. That dynamic certainly is true of Alberto and Raul's, and later Enzo and Raul's and Enzo and Ana's, relationship. Alberto basically bet Velvet on Raul's first collection, which almost drove it into bankruptcy again. Alberto believed in Ana for very legitimate reasons that she had already demonstrated (i.e., Airsa and Philippe Ray to that point) and she had already built a fanbase of clients and earned the attention of the press. And Alberto soothed both Ana and Raul's feathers about the Oteguis, whether it was Ana when tempted to quit after Cristina became her (indirect) boss or Raul when he had a conflict with Enrique or actually did officially resign. As I see it, his sensitive-artist-handling wasn't dramatically different (other than of course for the reasons the Oteguis were against each, and the exact way Alberto talked to them). As for Ana's work on the joint collection, during the runway show itself the audience clearly loved her dresses just as much as Raul's. It was just the newspaper story that led to its failure, and I personally can excuse Ana for temporarily becoming extremely depressed and (at least temporarily) ready to give up after: 1. total public humiliation at her very first show, something she had dreamed about all her life (in addition to the personal embarrassment of having a very one-sided version of her love life published in the newspaper), 2. the complete failure of her collection (no one bought even a single dress!), particularly when she had worked at the Galerias all her life and had come to see sales as a sign of the success of a designer's work, and 3. the feeling that she had given up everything in her life (which, well, I guess was just Alberto?) for her career and now that she failed she was left with nothing. I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed either. (Remember Raul was ready to give up--he gave up--too after Oxford stole his whole collection and he had to start over again from zero. That seemed understandable enough at the time!) Reinforcing the fact that Ana deserved the success she eventually gained, and it wasn't handed to her unfairly, Philippe Ray was the big prize for Cafiero. Alberto played poker to convince Enzo to sell the earlier collections internationally, but when Alberto called a second time Enzo knew all about Ana/Philippe; he wanted to work with her because he thought she'd be the next Coco Chanel and he wanted her to design for his stores in different cities, etc. Sure, that's an opportunity, but one that, once again, she absolutely earned. Yeah, the reason Alberto called was entangled in his feelings for Ana and his desire to reanimate her belief in herself as a designer, but it was also because of the personal that she had ever failed in the first place. (Obviously it wasn't only Alberto's fault that Cristina was Ana's enemy, but C was the source of that front page scandal story of Ana/Philippe Ray the day Alberto annulled their marriage.) Plus, trying to sell Ana's line outside of Spain made more money for Velvet: it was a personal thing, but it also was (as they had joked about as kids, which gave him the idea), him acting as her Italian (business) representative, which is what Velvet's director should do. And as an aside: Alberto never tried to negotiate the terms of his second deal with Enzo--at that point, he was ready to leave, so selling Velvet was a tempting offer when it fell into his lap. I'm not sure Lara if you are also referring to Alberto as one of the men who made a sacrifice for Ana? His letter from Istanbul makes it pretty clear he needs to find himself again to be able to be happy, and that wasn't going to happen at Velvet. So it doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice--he's also got what he needed, no matter how hard it was to say goodbye. Mateo did stick his neck out for Ana, and he did lose his job over it, but she helped him get back into Velvet, with Alberto's old office (taking it out from under Marco), with double his previous salary, and the complete freedom to work both jobs (until he was fired). He made the choice to sacrifice something to help out a friend, but it's not like she's never done anything for him. This season as the old gang gets back together (aka the friendships among all the 'good guys' re-form/tighten as they grow closer again), the writers are definitely showing how important loyalty and friendship are and how Ana is still part of the Velvet "family" that she grew up as a part of downstairs despite her success, a family that used to include Alberto, upstairs, in its periphery and now includes Mateo. Mateo and Ana have developed such a beautiful friendship this season. It's one of my favorite parts--if they'd only get stinking drunk together it might fill in a little more of the Mateo-Alberto shaped hole in my heart. In this case, I think Mateo's gender is incidental. Just like Luisa came back to support Philippe Ray after getting famous, Mateo is helping his dear friend in a way only he can.
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Post by dalovelee on Nov 25, 2016 21:56:47 GMT -5
How does Carlos NOT know that Rita and Clara are Ana's best friends and if ANYONE should be planning Ana's wedding it would be these too. To me that should make Ana definitely say this Carlos is all WRONG for me. as for MAS not appearing in episode 8. Hmm I feel like the viewers, the fans have been totally conned. There's only 11 episodes ..Uh, so when is anything going to happen? Cristina planning Ana's wedding is absolutely mind boggling..Carlos walked into it when he connived with the viper(Cristina)to hide Alberto's letters.I don't think Ana is aware that's how oblivious she is,its unimaginable.Her worst enemy is planning her wedding ranging from the ugly gown to menu..ugh!!Carlos has a lot of explaining to do. I am not sure about viewers been conned..Mas picked up another job somewhere..which greatly minimized his part in season 4.I guess the showrunners didn't anticipate the impact of his absence on the show..otherwise they should have made a better deal with the actor to keep him for season 4. I totally understand he picked up a job elsewhere..BUT if the actor is your lead character in your hit show and is central to the plot..of the series, uh that is priority. (I'm just thinking in the USA/UK) imagine on a hit show like The Big Bang Theory and the guy who plays Sheldon Cooper booking another gig. Of course the producers would be happy for him, but his contract means he's got to be available for TBBT as priority. This is not so much as MAS fault but the producers.
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Post by hopelessromantic on Nov 25, 2016 22:08:22 GMT -5
Maybe there is some truth to the agreement that in 5 years Alberto would return to Velvet. Marco has been acting on his belief that Alberto cannot return as he is dead. This makes him bold with not conscience. He feels he do whatever he wants. He also is in for a shock. There is truth in that ..I did read it online but for the life of me I am not sure which website. .it did say one of the conditions Alberto made with the Italians..is to get velvet back after FIVE years.
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