Yolande from Canada
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Post by Yolande from Canada on Nov 4, 2016 23:52:25 GMT -5
I know this has very little to do with Velvet but it's from the same production company so I have to say that I just finished watching Gran Hotel. Excellent! I found it very suspenseful. Each episode was Intriguing. In the end the two main characters were united and all the plot lines fell into place, The same will happen to Velvet. All of our worries and concerns will be for nada. I am definitely going to be watching "CableGirls". I like seeing actors returning for the next series. We have already gotten to know and love them and we will soon be drawn into the newest character they play. Llorenz Gonzalez (Jonas) is a very good actor...I was happy to see a more serious side of him...like he is in season 4 of Velvet. Amaia Salamanca (Barbara) is so beautiful and sweet...it's hard to imagine the conniving bitch Barbara when she plays Alicia. Concetta Velasco (I hope I have the correct spelling...if not my apologies) will forever be my favourite senior actor. Then Marta Hazas was good also but I prefer her "Clara" instead. I am so happy I came across these two series and hope to find other good ones (sub-titled of course). Now back to Velvet!!
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 4, 2016 23:52:47 GMT -5
You are right, this is a storyline hole. If Ana can help Rita financially with the treatment why can she rent the dress shop for herself. I don't know how Velvet management can work this out, Ana is working for them the project is for them and Carlos pay the rent and the construction of the dress shop. What does Velvet have to put out? And what stop Ana to inform Cafiero that Marco use the excuse of her needing the space to do the project to evict the worker in the dormitory, by doing so force her to stop the "ready to wear" project? Jonas and Pedro destroy the workshop just out of desperation? They are simple and honest people but not immoral or gangsters. Many holes in the S4. I know! Having Ana be able to pay for Rita's operation really ruins the story line of Pedro and Jonas destroying the workshop. It makes something that felt so desperate and heart wrenching completely pointless. And I really don't understand how Carlos can pay for the workshop but still have it be under Velvet, or why Ana couldn't. Is she stuck at Velvet? I can't imagine her contract is indefinite and that she wouldn't have other people willing to invest in her at this point if she's so successful.
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Yolande from Canada
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Post by Yolande from Canada on Nov 4, 2016 23:55:18 GMT -5
Where would I find "CableGirls" i would like to watch it
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 5, 2016 0:04:26 GMT -5
I know this has very little to do with Velvet but it's from the same production company so I have to say that I just finished watching Gran Hotel. Excellent! I found it very suspenseful. Each episode was Intriguing. In the end the two main characters were united and all the plot lines fell into place, The same will happen to Velvet. All of our worries and concerns will be for nada. I am definitely going to be watching "CableGirls". I like seeing actors returning for the next series. We have already gotten to know and love them and we will soon be drawn into the newest character they play. Llorenz Gonzalez (Jonas) is a very good actor...I was happy to see a more serious side of him...like he is in season 4 of Velvet. Amaia Salamanca (Barbara) is so beautiful and sweet...it's hard to imagine the conniving bitch Barbara when she plays Alicia. Concetta Velasco (I hope I have the correct spelling...if not my apologies) will forever be my favourite senior actor. Then Marta Hazas was good also but I prefer her "Clara" instead. I am so happy I came across these two series and hope to find other good ones (sub-titled of course). Now back to Velvet!! Gran Hotel was my first introduction to Spanish television and I loved it! I stayed up until 5 in the morning finishing it. 😬 I was thinking Velvet was maybe pushing it out as my favorite, but I'm not so sure anymore. I definitely think the writing was better with Gran Hotel, but I will wait until Velvet is finished to decide which I like best. It's so weird to dislike Amaia so much as Barbara when I loved her so much as Alicia! Marta's character in Velvet is my favorite out of her characters in Velvet, Gran Hotel and El Internado.
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 5, 2016 0:11:34 GMT -5
I think they gave the cost of the operation, but I'm not sure about the workroom. I agree that what you're saying is probably what's going on, I just wish it was clarified. I'm always wondering what I'm missing in translation, and it's frustrating to not have the plot always seem to make sense! 😊 Yeah, the show definitely leaves a lot up to assumption. Northboundtrain: I wonder if part of the issue with Patricia is because Alberto took away her shares, completely stripping her of having any real say in what happens at Velvet? Having her be a power player in the store was always so interesting, in big part because you were never sure whose side she was going to take. Now her plot seems pretty much reduced to juggling her husband and Enrique and the unplanned pregnancy. I miss her as one of the power players in the running of the store. I agree that Alberto stripping her of her shares hurt the character. He did try to "make up for it" by telling Enzo that one of his conditions was that Patricia would stay in charge of jewelry, but the shares would have meant far, far more (especially since Joyas Velvet has fallen by the wayside and everyone working on it is now working on Raul's line instead). We've talked here about things that went wrong in S3 -- one of the things that actually went right, far better than in the other two seasons -- was Patricia's story. In S1, her only real story was how her vote made her a pawn in the Alberto/Gloria wars. In S2, her only story was as Enrique's sex toy. But, finally, in S3, she was firing on all cylinders...with her elevated role at Velvet and with her budding romance with Jonas. And then she showed tremendous character growth in the wake of Alberto's death and the siding with Ana over Cristina. I wish we could get the backstory on why all of that was abandoned to return her to her S2 story as Enrique's mistress. Exactly my take on it...I got Cristina coming unglued and wanting revenge. But then it veered into caricature territory (like the writers were going for cheap shocks: "Tune in next week to see Cristina PUSH ANA DOWN THE STAIRS!" "Tune in next week to see Cristina ATTACK ANA WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS!"), when I think the more sophisticated writing choice would have been to start rehabbing the character after her suicide attempt. I can watch S2 and S3 way more often than I can watch S1 and it's because of Christina I can't. Her sweetness, her status gave her the "luxury" of being happy all the time while everyone around her was depressed including Alberto, really irked me. She's pleasant to watch as she's very good at showing her love for Alberto. I watched her face instantly light up, moast with tears, when she tells Alberto she loves him for the very first time after they secured the deal with Raul. When she talks of Alberto with Ana she's very animated. She was nauseatingly sweet is the only way I can put it. It made everyone else around her including Ana so serious. And everything she did just turned out perfect for what exactly Alberto needed. It was all too convenient for me. I understand that perspective, but for me, seeing Cristina doing everything "perfectly" only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story -- it showed that even when Alberto had the seemingly "perfect" woman in front of him, doing and saying all the right things, he couldn't shake Ana...because his love for Ana was that deep, that strong. It's for that reason that I'll always think one of the most inspired writing choices in S1 occurred when Cristina set up the video of Alberto's father for his birthday. Ana and Alberto both looked positively heartsick when they realized that Cristina was the one who set the video up, because they both knew it was, on the surface, the "perfect" gift...not the typical gift from a shallow rich girl, but something thoughtful and kind that demonstrated Cristina's insight into Alberto. But then, later, Alberto went up to the roof and he and Ana had that joyful dance...a different gift, and a different kind of "perfect" that showed that while Cristina understood Alberto's need to mourn his father, Ana understood his need to move on and find happiness with her. I agree with your take on Cristina so much! It made Alberto choosing Ana so much more meaningful before they made Cristina go so crazy!! And I agree about Patricia. I found her the most interesting in season three when she was with Jonas and also still having power in the store. It just feels like she has regressed, which is frustrating when I was growing to like her so much.
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Post by Lara on Nov 5, 2016 0:32:19 GMT -5
You are right, this is a storyline hole. If Ana can help Rita financially with the treatment why can she rent the dress shop for herself. I don't know how Velvet management can work this out, Ana is working for them the project is for them and Carlos pay the rent and the construction of the dress shop. What does Velvet have to put out? And what stop Ana to inform Cafiero that Marco use the excuse of her needing the space to do the project to evict the worker in the dormitory, by doing so force her to stop the "ready to wear" project? Jonas and Pedro destroy the workshop just out of desperation? They are simple and honest people but not immoral or gangsters. Many holes in the S4. I know! Having Ana be able to pay for Rita's operation really ruins the story line of Pedro and Jonas destroying the workshop. It makes something that felt so desperate and heart wrenching completely pointless. And I really don't understand how Carlos can pay for the workshop but still have it be under Velvet, or why Ana couldn't. Is she stuck at Velvet? I can't imagine her contract is indefinite and that she wouldn't have other people willing to invest in her at this point if she's so successful. I can't figure this out either! If anyone invests in the new space other than Velvet, how is it their line? Whoever invests in the property is entitled to a cut of the profits. That's what I don't get about Carlos' involvement, even if he just pays to renovate the space. Instead of battling Marco and co. Ana should have been looking to leave Velvet because how is she supposed to work in such a hostile environment? They should be be giving her anything she wants, much like Alberto did with Enrique. Instead they treat her like dirt. How she will work with them after what they made Pedro do us beyond me. Ana has a mental block when it comes to Velvet, she puts that store above everything else, including herself. How is Pedro going to go back to working there after all this? If I were Pedro I would keep the money, he could use it to fix the space if Rita doesn't want him to keep it. Screw Marco and Enrique. There are giant plotholes in just about every story.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 5, 2016 7:08:34 GMT -5
Oh Adrienne, I agree. That scene where Christina gives Alberto the "best" birthday present to Alberto, was the beginning of her relationship with Alberto. It disturbed me somewhat because it WAS exactly what Alberto would have wanted as he had told Ana just before how much he missed his father. The key to that episode was only Christina could of thought of it because Christina had a relationship with Albertos father and it was a positive relationship because Albertos' father always wanted the two to get together. Ana would never have thought of it because she had an acrimonious relationship with Alberto's father because he was instrumental in keeping them apart.
That scene actually was instrumental as it started the more physical relationship between Alberto and Christina. More kissing. I was facinated by how the writers slowly worked that into the scenes. Christina became almost hungry after that to touch Alberto, to increase their physical proximity to each other. That was a bit of a deal breaker between Ana and Alberto, the beginning of the end of the 2 of them.
About Gran Hotel, because I watched Velvet before Gran Hotel, as Velvet was really my first spanish speaking show, and therefore my introduction to Barbara was this mean and bitchy character I found it hard to relate to her in Gran Hotel and put it off until one day I persevered and found it the most enjoyable show. I loved it. Suberbly done. The follow through was excellent. I was also estatic to see characters from Velvet in Gran Hotel and decided then and there that I would seek out other shows in spanish just to be able to see these actors again.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 5, 2016 8:22:38 GMT -5
Regarding the Ana not buying into the store herself, I frankly noticed that no one uses their own money to do anything. For instance when Alberto was facing bankruptcy with Velvet couldn't he have used his own money? I'm sure he wasn't poor! Ana knows that Marco doesn't want to support her project. It's begs the question why didn't she get a loan to offset the costs? I guess they never had a chance to consider that option because Carlos jumped in with a proposal for the store and himself. Really she hasn't had much time to consider anything as the scheming by the axis of evil, has a greater momentum than anything reasonable.
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Post by northboundtrain on Nov 5, 2016 10:13:47 GMT -5
I know this has very little to do with Velvet but it's from the same production company so I have to say that I just finished watching Gran Hotel. Excellent! I found it very suspenseful. Each episode was Intriguing. In the end the two main characters were united and all the plot lines fell into place, The same will happen to Velvet. All of our worries and concerns will be for nada. I am definitely going to be watching "CableGirls". I like seeing actors returning for the next series. We have already gotten to know and love them and we will soon be drawn into the newest character they play. Llorenz Gonzalez (Jonas) is a very good actor...I was happy to see a more serious side of him...like he is in season 4 of Velvet. Amaia Salamanca (Barbara) is so beautiful and sweet...it's hard to imagine the conniving bitch Barbara when she plays Alicia. Concetta Velasco (I hope I have the correct spelling...if not my apologies) will forever be my favourite senior actor. Then Marta Hazas was good also but I prefer her "Clara" instead. I am so happy I came across these two series and hope to find other good ones (sub-titled of course). Now back to Velvet!! Yes, Gran Hotel is great! That was actually the first Spanish drama I fell in love with, and I was actually sort of irritated when I finished GH and my family members told me to start watching Velvet, because I didn't want to watch a new show -- I wanted more GH! It took me a few episodes of Velvet before I was hooked and started getting into it as much as I'd been in to GH. Just as a side note for anyone reading this, Gran Hotel is leaving Netflix on November 15th, so if you've been putting off watching it, watch it now. Jonas and Pedro destroy the workshop just out of desperation? They are simple and honest people but not immoral or gangsters. Many holes in the S4. I don't think the show was trying to imply that they've suddenly become immoral gangsters. Before the destruction of the workroom, Pedro was already hanging on by a very thin thread as his circumstances keep changing drastically (and this is NOT a character who deals well with abrupt changes) -- first, he thought he was going to have another baby and he was running around trying to secure money for that, which caused him stress at work and at home and hurt his relationship with Jonas, etc. Then, surprise, it's not a baby: Rita has cancer and needs a costly operation if she's going to have even a CHANCE of survival. So, now, Pedro's not just desperate for money, but devastated. Enter Enrique, and it's like a miracle -- he's going to give Pedro the money! All hope isn't lost! Until, wait, no, Enrique will only give Pedro the money if Pedro destroys Ana's workroom. I have a lot of sympathy for Pedro's state of mind during all of this. I can absolutely understand why he just snapped and ran to destroy the workroom as soon as possible. Just looking at the scene, AL was a sobbing, hysterical mess. He wasn't thinking clearly -- all he was thinking was that if he hurried up and did it before he lost his nerve, then he'd FINALLY have the money for Rita, and there was a chance she might live after all. And Jonas, sweet Jonas, didn't destroy the workroom because he suddenly lacks all morals himself -- he did it out of loyalty for Pedro. He wasn't going to let Pedro do such an awful thing alone. I'm sure that next episode everyone will chew them out for not having thought things through clearly, but when you've got a family member with cancer, rational thought doesn't always play into it. Where would I find "CableGirls" i would like to watch it Hello! Cable Girls is currently in production and will air on Netflix sometime in 2017. I agree with your take on Cristina so much! It made Alberto choosing Ana so much more meaningful before they made Cristina go so crazy!! Exactly! I know. I just don't get it. For instance when Alberto was facing bankruptcy with Velvet couldn't he have used his own money? I'm sure he wasn't poor! I'm sure Alberto wasn't poor -- he probably had some money saved from his work in London -- and the Marquez family was well off, but if Don Rafael didn't have enough money to save Velvet (that's one of the reasons he committed suicide), then there's no way that Alberto would have had enough. Oh Adrienne, I agree. That scene where Christina gives Alberto the "best" birthday present to Alberto, was the beginning of her relationship with Alberto. It disturbed me somewhat because it WAS exactly what Alberto would have wanted as he had told Ana just before how much he missed his father. The key to that episode was only Christina could of thought of it because Christina had a relationship with Albertos father and it was a positive relationship because Albertos' father always wanted the two to get together. Ana would never have thought of it because she had an acrimonious relationship with Alberto's father because he was instrumental in keeping them apart. Yes, exactly...and the fact that Cristina had such a positive relationship with Rafael (as opposed to Ana, who didn't) continues to play on through S1 and S2, like when Ana immediately sides with Isabel (even when Alberto is clearly having trouble dealing with the fact that Isabel being alive means his father lied to him), while Cristina is uncomfortable with Isabel moving in, and continues to defend Rafael to Alberto. I hated Isabel, actually, so in my mind the only thing she was good for was allowing the writers to add another layer to the weird Alberto/Rafael/Ana/Cristina dynamic.
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 5, 2016 11:02:46 GMT -5
I definitely have sympathy for Pedro's state of mind, especially after he was up all night worrying about Rita. I just don't want them to cheapen how awful a decision it wasn't making it pointless, if that makes sense.
So I was talking to my husband about Velvet last night. He has watched some of all three of the Spanish shows I have, but infrequently. He speaks Spanish and enjoys it for that reason among others, but isnt invested like I am because he doesn't get obsessed with things like I do and hasn't watched that much. We were talking about the things I was struggling with and he pointed at that for him he likes Velvet not for the storyline, but for the characters and how they interact with each other and in their environment. I'm wondering if that is more an issue than plot holes, because there have always been plot holes and aspects of the story line that has bothered me, but I loved the show regardless. Since I'm not as into A/A and am not that upset by MAS's absence I'm not maybe as upset as others by the storyline this season. I know a lot of people are really feeling the hole of having Alberto gone and not having your favorite couple at least interacting. Maybe missing those favorite character interactions gone is just making the plot hole problems all that much more obvious and annoying. (I do think the plot holes are worse this season too, so I'm not trying to down play anyone's frustration with the show right now.)
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Post by carlucc on Nov 5, 2016 11:18:09 GMT -5
Where would I find "CableGirls" i would like to watch it It's being produced soon and will be on Netflix! Other posters correct me...nicely...if I am wrong.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 5, 2016 13:33:11 GMT -5
I think that in this episode they said that Carlos convinced Petra to rent the place to them with all the Velvet budget and he is giving Ana the money for the repairs/remodeling as a gift because he wants to be her husband. The cost of a place like that, that big, in the centre of Madrid... that's a lot of money. Why is Petra willing to rent to Carlos the amount Marco giving to Ana and Mateo(half of what original asked by Ana and Mateo). And she is not welling to rent to Ana and Mateo directly with the same low amount because she needs to survive with rent from the dress shop?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 14:25:56 GMT -5
In the Velvet budget they had to include everything, so the first offer was too low and Petra said no. Carlos contacted her and convinced her to accept the entire budget that Marco had assigned to them, while he will pay with his own money the remodeling/repairs. Ana even asks him why he knows about it and he says that it didn't matter, so I think that Cristina probably is going to take the merit for helping Ana giving Carlos that information and acting like she is her ally in Velvet. When Ana meets Marco she tells him that Petra accepted their offer and Carlos will pay the rest, Marco says that's not very professional, people paying with their own money something related to the company, Ana answers that Carlos was also part of Velvet, that he was a collaborator when they designed the Airsa uniforms. At the end Marco has to accept, it would have been weird to not accept such gift.
Many times, the show shows things that doesn't have any sense at first, which are explained later, like how Carlos was able to know about Petra. You just have to wait, sometimes they don't close plots though, like when Luisa supposedly killed the man who blackmailed her in the first season. Adrienne, your husband got the show right, and this is also for you primusoars, if you try to focus too much in the plot you are not going to enjoy the show as much, because many times it has not sense at all, like Clara slapping Mateo, you have to relax, let you go and enjoy the ride.
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Post by Jorja on Nov 5, 2016 15:03:38 GMT -5
I have not seen Episode 5 yet as I am waiting (and trying to be patient) for the sub-titles. Thank you to VV for doing the sub-titles! I really do appreciate it as I do not understand much Spanish but I am totally addicted to this show!!! Not sure why I am but I am!
Northboundtrain said ~ I understand that perspective, but for me, seeing Cristina doing everything "perfectly" only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story -- it showed that even when Alberto had the seemingly "perfect" woman in front of him, doing and saying all the right things, he couldn't shake Ana...because his love for Ana was that deep, that strong.
It's for that reason that I'll always think one of the most inspired writing choices in S1 occurred when Cristina set up the video of Alberto's father for his birthday. Ana and Alberto both looked positively heartsick when they realized that Cristina was the one who set the video up, because they both knew it was, on the surface, the "perfect" gift...not the typical gift from a shallow rich girl, but something thoughtful and kind that demonstrated Cristina's insight into Alberto.
But then, later, Alberto went up to the roof and he and Ana had that joyful dance...a different gift, and a different kind of "perfect" that showed that while Cristina understood Alberto's need to mourn his father, Ana understood his need to move on and find happiness with her.
I totally agree with the way you said Christina doing everything perfectly only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story! That is what really drew me in was through everything even when it seemed like he had the perfect woman in front of him, the relationship with Ana stood strong. He tried to do what he felt was the right thing after Ana left him and told him to marry Christina so that everyone's jobs would be saved. He tried to put himself totally into it but they had so much history! They had been best friends from day 1 and only built on that more and more through the years. You could see the struggle for him so many times and I absolutely adore MAS! He really makes you feel like you are right there feeling what he feels! I am so very ready for him to be back on the show!
As for the plotline with Christina trying to help Carlos marry Ana...being married to someone else didn't keep Alberto and Ana apart before, why would you think it would now? Especially now that they have a son together! Even if Ana married Carlos before Alberto comes back, what they had will fall right back in place. The years he was in London writing her letters she never received didn't phase them. These years won't either! She will be mad at first thinking he let her believe he was dead but once she finds out he wrote and sent Adele, she will get over that and be right back where she was! I also think he is the reason she stays with Velvet. She believes he sacrificed everything for her to have that job, she won't walk away from it very easily not to mention her uncle's and all her friend's jobs are tied into her success.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 5, 2016 15:32:40 GMT -5
In the Velvet budget they had to include everything, so the first offer was too low and Petra said no. Carlos contacted her and convinced her to accept the entire budget that Marco had assigned to them, while he will pay with his own money the remodeling/repairs. Ana even asks him why he knows about it and he says that it didn't matter, so I think that Cristina probably is going to take the merit for helping Ana giving Carlos that information and acting like she is her ally in Velvet. When Ana meets Marco she tells him that Petra accepted their offer and Carlos will pay the rest, Marco says that's not very professional, people paying with their own money something related to the company, Ana answers that Carlos was also part of Velvet, that he was a collaborator when they designed the Airsa uniforms. At the end Marco has to accept, it would have been weird to not accept such gift. Many times, the show shows things that doesn't have any sense at first, which are explained later, like how Carlos was able to know about Petra. You just have to wait, sometimes they don't close plots though, like when Luisa supposedly killed the man who blackmailed her in the first season. Adrienne, your husband got the show right, and this is also for you primusoars, if you try to focus too much in the plot you are not going to enjoy the show as much, because many times it has not sense at all, like Clara slapping Mateo, you have to relax, let you go and enjoy the ride. I will try! And overlook the potholes.
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