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Post by Adrienne on Nov 4, 2016 12:47:20 GMT -5
Northboundtrain: I wonder if part of the issue with Patricia is because Alberto took away her shares, completely stripping her of having any real say in what happens at Velvet? Having her be a power player in the store was always so interesting, in big part because you were never sure whose side she was going to take. Now her plot seems pretty much reduced to juggling her husband and Enrique and the unplanned pregnancy. I miss her as one of the power players in the running of the store.
I agree about Christina in season one. I actually loved that she was played as a sweet person and a real option for Alberto. It made his choice more interesting to me. That's why I had such a hard time when they made her go so extreme in season 3. It seemed like the writers were kind of taking the easy way by having her become so crazy.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 4, 2016 13:25:29 GMT -5
I can watch S2 and S3 way more often than I can watch S1 and it's because of Christina I can't. Her sweetness, her status gave her the "luxury" of being happy all the time while everyone around her was depressed including Alberto, really irked me. She's pleasant to watch as she's very good at showing her love for Alberto. I watched her face instantly light up, moast with tears, when she tells Alberto she loves him for the very first time after they secured the deal with Raul. When she talks of Alberto with Ana she's very animated. She was nauseatingly sweet is the only way I can put it. It made everyone else around her including Ana so serious. And everything she did just turned out perfect for what exactly Alberto needed. It was all too convenient for me. That's why I delighted in her downfall in S2. Her perfect imaginary world was crashing ever so slowly around her. She couldn't get pregnant, she couldn't get Alberto to play nice with her family, and she couldn't keep him from cheating. And eventually she couldn't make Alberto love her.
Karma's a bitch!! I know that's mean, but I just didn't like her. I knew underneath that "photo smile" she was a spoiled sociopath. We just needed to wait for the right moment and S3 and S4 are clearly showing us that there's nobody "pulling her strings". She's capable of that and more. I agree with Alfi, she's moved on from Ana and it's Alberto that she has her sights on and it's to hurt him right where it hurts the most, losing Ana to Carlos. The wicked witch is back with a vengence and that venegence is revenge on Alberto. Of course it will hurt Ana too. I wonder if she tries to kill him like she said she would in S3?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 14:52:44 GMT -5
I wonder if she tries to kill him like she said she would in S3? I think she wants to call him the day before the wedding or maybe the same day just before the wedding start just to tell him what is going to happen, that Ana is going to marry Carlos, maybe also telling him that Ana never stopped loving him, and why Ana accepted another man as her husband, she was who made that possible. . And she is already almost savouring that moment, she is enjoying herself in every scene.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 4, 2016 15:14:34 GMT -5
Quite right Alfi, quite right. She's wicked that one!!
But we also know Alberto's coming back...so how will she handle that when he saves Ana from marrying Carlos?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 15:43:15 GMT -5
She calls Silks in New York and someone tells her that someone named Lagasca Ruiz came for him and they are going back to Madrid to stop a wedding, that would a nice slap of writers to Cristina  But i think is Ana who is going to save herself, Alberto can do the physical job of sending Carlos for a vacation a couple of months in a hospital.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 4, 2016 16:06:32 GMT -5
So if Ana has the money to help Rita with her operation like it implies in the preview for next week, why did she need Carlos to help with renting Dona Auroras? I feel like she should be making a lot of money based on her job/success but it doesn't feel like she is, if that makes sense. Maybe that is just because she is still living at the store? Is she contracted to have to stay with Velvet? It just seems like she should have more options than being beholden to Marco. I agree with you! See the holes in the story!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 16:16:59 GMT -5
I think that in this episode they said that Carlos convinced Petra to rent the place to them with all the Velvet budget and he is giving Ana the money for the repairs/remodeling as a gift because he wants to be her husband. The cost of a place like that, that big, in the centre of Madrid... that's a lot of money.
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Post by Lara on Nov 4, 2016 16:27:32 GMT -5
I can watch S2 and S3 way more often than I can watch S1 and it's because of Christina I can't. Her sweetness, her status gave her the "luxury" of being happy all the time while everyone around her was depressed including Alberto, really irked me. She's pleasant to watch as she's very good at showing her love for Alberto. I watched her face instantly light up, moast with tears, when she tells Alberto she loves him for the very first time after they secured the deal with Raul. When she talks of Alberto with Ana she's very animated. She was nauseatingly sweet is the only way I can put it. It made everyone else around her including Ana so serious. And everything she did just turned out perfect for what exactly Alberto needed. It was all too convenient for me. That's why I delighted in her downfall in S2. Her perfect imaginary world was crashing ever so slowly around her. She couldn't get pregnant, she couldn't get Alberto to play nice with her family, and she couldn't keep him from cheating. And eventually she couldn't make Alberto love her. Karma's a bitch!! I know that's mean, but I just didn't like her. I knew underneath that "photo smile" she was a spoiled sociopath. We just needed to wait for the right moment and S3 and S4 are clearly showing us that there's nobody "pulling her strings". She's capable of that and more. I agree with Alfi, she's moved on from Ana and it's Alberto that she has her sights on and it's to hurt him right where it hurts the most, losing Ana to Carlos. The wicked witch is back with a vengence and that venegence is revenge on Alberto. Of course it will hurt Ana too. I wonder if she tries to kill him like she said she would in S3? Very well said, Lady. I felt the same way about Cristina, except I never found her pleasant at all to watch. She was frustrating in her obliviousness, although I now believe she knew he didn't love her but didn't care because she was convinced she would make him fall in love with her after they were married. That's frustrating unto itself. She was never a nice, sweet character. It was all a phony act. The seeds were planted from S1 for what happened in S3. She couldn't stand that Alberto wouldn't be controlled by her because she was used to being the puppet master. She did it to her father too, which is why he came up with the deal. That's what she couldn't get through her head, that she never actually won the prize fair and square, she cheated to get it. You know what they say about cheaters, they never prosper. Lol And yeah her perfection in S1 of everything turning out just right because of her was nauseating. All she knew how to do with use her social connections. She was a disaster at actually doing real business in S3. What I did love in S1 as far as A/A is that they had some sweet moments and were able to be affectionate. I disagree about her S4 agenda though. Unfortunately, they're not really saying what her motivations are, but the fact that Carlos actually said keeping quiet is the only way to get him back by her side and she said something like I've mourned him for 5 years and I don't want to waste another minute getting in touch with him is odd. Ok, she gets in touch with him, he finds out, he's devastated, then what? We know her plan is ridiculous, but in her mind what is the end game? He no longer lives in Madrid, so it's not like he will be running into them. It actually is better for Alberto, he already suspects Ana has moved on, if he gets confirmation he might finally able to move on with his own life. I think she still wants Ana out of the way and thinks Ana will forget Alberto (as per a title on Antena's website). Marrying Carlos in her mind will permanently take Ana off the market. We know this is dumb because it didn't work for her. Ana can leave Carlos at any time. Now if Ana got pregnant by Carlos, then she's screwed. The show is so ludicrous right now, I'm surprised that wasn't what Cristina told Carlos to do, assuming they have sex, which seems unlikely. It is more evil genius than what they are doing now what this stupid marriage.
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Post by ladyfromcanada on Nov 4, 2016 18:15:29 GMT -5
I agree with your interpretation of Ana and Alberto in S1 but that carried through to S3, and I think it was all due to their friendship. Ana and Alberto have been friends a long time. You can see in many scenes where they could easily talk with one another, give each other sound advice, and confront each other when the other was being an idiot. Alberto trusted Ana to tell him the truth and vice versa. Neither one of them had that with Christina or Carlos. For me that's why I loved their characters so much. The most notable example of that was when Ana and Alberto were in NY, and they had to recreate the designs for Airsa. They were sitting side by side and Alberto has a huge smile on his face. He content, stress free, happily sewing away, never better than being with the love of his life. They were just so comfortable with each other.
Christina never had that nor would she because unfortunately she was of another world completely. Alberto preferred Ana's class than of his own. There was a certain sense of being "real". And that's what Chrtina will never get. Ana and Alberto are not Enrique and Barbara, never in a million years but that"s who she associates love with. I would even go so far to suggest her father probably had a very distant relationship with her mother. Probably had affairs too. That's why Christina couldn't understand Alberto's relationship with his mother. She didn't know that kind of love. She didn't even know until Barbara told her what she should do to win over Isabel. Look at how Christina treats her own daughter, she threatens to withold, "nice dresses, visits to the park, whatever..." if she doesn't obey and stay away from Alberto Jr. in E1.
Patricia had that problem too. Everything was about scheming to get what you want. And whose side she was going to manipulate. She's learned no other way. That's why she had no idea that it was offensive to sleep with a married man. She has no moral compass because in her world everyone does it. It doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as she wins. It's shame Patricia hasn't changed. I thought she did but I was wrong. Enrique has some hold over her. Could she actually be in love with him? Enrique in love with her?
Lots of dynamics, it's what caught my attention at the very beginning. I'll add one more thing about Clara, I thought she was progressive in spirit. Wanting to be an accountant, learning to drive, doing all the things a man does and yet in turn resorts to hissy fits at a drop at a hat. On top of that and maybe that's progressive but uses sex to get what she wants. Hmm...sort of like Patricia.
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Post by carlucc on Nov 4, 2016 18:57:55 GMT -5
"Lady from Canada" posted: "Patricia had that problem too. Everything was about scheming to get what you want. And whose side she was going to manipulate. She's learned no other way. That's why she had no idea that it was offensive to sleep with a married man. She has no moral compass because in her world everyone does it. It doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as she wins. It's shame Patricia hasn't changed. I thought she did but I was wrong. Enrique has some hold over her. Could she actually be in love with him? Enrique in love with her?"
When Enrique kept asking if the baby was his and Patricia kept talking he was getting emotional and his eyes were tearing up. (Or maybe it was my tv). I think he loves her but she is using him to stay on as management. He showed the caring side of him in the scene in season 3 when he carried his sister to her bed when she tried to take all those pills.
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Post by northboundtrain on Nov 4, 2016 19:47:04 GMT -5
I think they gave the cost of the operation, but I'm not sure about the workroom. I agree that what you're saying is probably what's going on, I just wish it was clarified. I'm always wondering what I'm missing in translation, and it's frustrating to not have the plot always seem to make sense! 😊 Yeah, the show definitely leaves a lot up to assumption. Northboundtrain: I wonder if part of the issue with Patricia is because Alberto took away her shares, completely stripping her of having any real say in what happens at Velvet? Having her be a power player in the store was always so interesting, in big part because you were never sure whose side she was going to take. Now her plot seems pretty much reduced to juggling her husband and Enrique and the unplanned pregnancy. I miss her as one of the power players in the running of the store. I agree that Alberto stripping her of her shares hurt the character. He did try to "make up for it" by telling Enzo that one of his conditions was that Patricia would stay in charge of jewelry, but the shares would have meant far, far more (especially since Joyas Velvet has fallen by the wayside and everyone working on it is now working on Raul's line instead). We've talked here about things that went wrong in S3 -- one of the things that actually went right, far better than in the other two seasons -- was Patricia's story. In S1, her only real story was how her vote made her a pawn in the Alberto/Gloria wars. In S2, her only story was as Enrique's sex toy. But, finally, in S3, she was firing on all cylinders...with her elevated role at Velvet and with her budding romance with Jonas. And then she showed tremendous character growth in the wake of Alberto's death and the siding with Ana over Cristina. I wish we could get the backstory on why all of that was abandoned to return her to her S2 story as Enrique's mistress. Exactly my take on it...I got Cristina coming unglued and wanting revenge. But then it veered into caricature territory (like the writers were going for cheap shocks: "Tune in next week to see Cristina PUSH ANA DOWN THE STAIRS!" "Tune in next week to see Cristina ATTACK ANA WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS!"), when I think the more sophisticated writing choice would have been to start rehabbing the character after her suicide attempt. I can watch S2 and S3 way more often than I can watch S1 and it's because of Christina I can't. Her sweetness, her status gave her the "luxury" of being happy all the time while everyone around her was depressed including Alberto, really irked me. She's pleasant to watch as she's very good at showing her love for Alberto. I watched her face instantly light up, moast with tears, when she tells Alberto she loves him for the very first time after they secured the deal with Raul. When she talks of Alberto with Ana she's very animated. She was nauseatingly sweet is the only way I can put it. It made everyone else around her including Ana so serious. And everything she did just turned out perfect for what exactly Alberto needed. It was all too convenient for me. I understand that perspective, but for me, seeing Cristina doing everything "perfectly" only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story -- it showed that even when Alberto had the seemingly "perfect" woman in front of him, doing and saying all the right things, he couldn't shake Ana...because his love for Ana was that deep, that strong. It's for that reason that I'll always think one of the most inspired writing choices in S1 occurred when Cristina set up the video of Alberto's father for his birthday. Ana and Alberto both looked positively heartsick when they realized that Cristina was the one who set the video up, because they both knew it was, on the surface, the "perfect" gift...not the typical gift from a shallow rich girl, but something thoughtful and kind that demonstrated Cristina's insight into Alberto. But then, later, Alberto went up to the roof and he and Ana had that joyful dance...a different gift, and a different kind of "perfect" that showed that while Cristina understood Alberto's need to mourn his father, Ana understood his need to move on and find happiness with her.
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Post by Christine on Nov 4, 2016 19:56:56 GMT -5
"Lady from Canada" posted: "Patricia had that problem too. Everything was about scheming to get what you want. And whose side she was going to manipulate. She's learned no other way. That's why she had no idea that it was offensive to sleep with a married man. She has no moral compass because in her world everyone does it. It doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as she wins. It's shame Patricia hasn't changed. I thought she did but I was wrong. Enrique has some hold over her. Could she actually be in love with him? Enrique in love with her?" When Enrique kept asking if the baby was his and Patricia kept talking he was getting emotional and his eyes were tearing up. (Or maybe it was my tv). I think he loves her but she is using him to stay on as management. He showed the caring side of him in the scene in season 3 when he carried his sister to her bed when she tried to take all those pills. . Of course she loves him they love each other both are afraid to admit it because one cannot trust the other, I think they are going to end up together.
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Post by Lara on Nov 4, 2016 20:08:55 GMT -5
I agree with your interpretation of Ana and Alberto in S1 but that carried through to S3, and I think it was all due to their friendship. Ana and Alberto have been friends a long time. You can see in many scenes where they could easily talk with one another, give each other sound advice, and confront each other when the other was being an idiot. Alberto trusted Ana to tell him the truth and vice versa. Neither one of them had that with Christina or Carlos. For me that's why I loved their characters so much. The most notable example of that was when Ana and Alberto were in NY, and they had to recreate the designs for Airsa. They were sitting side by side and Alberto has a huge smile on his face. He content, stress free, happily sewing away, never better than being with the love of his life. They were just so comfortable with each other. Christina never had that nor would she because unfortunately she was of another world completely. Alberto preferred Ana's class than of his own. There was a certain sense of being "real". And that's what Chrtina will never get. Ana and Alberto are not Enrique and Barbara, never in a million years but that"s who she associates love with. I would even go so far to suggest her father probably had a very distant relationship with her mother. Probably had affairs too. That's why Christina couldn't understand Alberto's relationship with his mother. She didn't know that kind of love. She didn't even know until Barbara told her what she should do to win over Isabel. Look at how Christina treats her own daughter, she threatens to withold, "nice dresses, visits to the park, whatever..." if she doesn't obey and stay away from Alberto Jr. in E1. Patricia had that problem too. Everything was about scheming to get what you want. And whose side she was going to manipulate. She's learned no other way. That's why she had no idea that it was offensive to sleep with a married man. She has no moral compass because in her world everyone does it. It doesn't matter who gets hurt as long as she wins. It's shame Patricia hasn't changed. I thought she did but I was wrong. Enrique has some hold over her. Could she actually be in love with him? Enrique in love with her? Lots of dynamics, it's what caught my attention at the very beginning. I'll add one more thing about Clara, I thought she was progressive in spirit. Wanting to be an accountant, learning to drive, doing all the things a man does and yet in turn resorts to hissy fits at a drop at a hat. On top of that and maybe that's progressive but uses sex to get what she wants. Hmm...sort of like Patricia. I think it was the opposite with Cristina regarding Enrique and Barbara's marriage. In the beginning Barbara was more pragmatic to Cristina's idealism. Cristina believed in the fairytale marriage and had put Alberto so high up on a pedestal that she would never even entertain jealousy with regards to Ana or Sara. She thought Alberto was different and would never cheat as she told Barbara. That's why she was so critical of Enrique's treatment of Barbara, she viewed Alberto and her marriage as superior. When she lectured him for the millionth time, Enrique finally had enough and told her to stop and look into her own marriage. In S3, she was so desperate to keep Alberto, that she said they could be like E/B. Which to me indicated that's he was willing to overlook his cheating. This was something unthinkable of S1&2 Cristina, but she was determined to preserve the marriage. I would tend to agree on Clara. I'm so disappointed she didn't mature and keep on with furthering her career. She could have easily stayed at Velvet as an accountant. Slapping Mateo for the lamest of reasons showed she displayed no growth. As for Patricia and Enrique. I think he does love her 😬 Not sure how she really feels about him, there never seemed to be love coming from her, but it seems like they want to make them this big couple and end with them together.
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Post by carlucc on Nov 4, 2016 21:58:21 GMT -5
I know this has very little to do with Velvet but it's from the same production company so I have to say that I just finished watching Gran Hotel. Excellent! I found it very suspenseful. Each episode was Intriguing. In the end the two main characters were united and all the plot lines fell into place, The same will happen to Velvet. All of our worries and concerns will be for nada. I am definitely going to be watching "CableGirls". I like seeing actors returning for the next series. We have already gotten to know and love them and we will soon be drawn into the newest character they play. Llorenz Gonzalez (Jonas) is a very good actor...I was happy to see a more serious side of him...like he is in season 4 of Velvet. Amaia Salamanca (Barbara) is so beautiful and sweet...it's hard to imagine the conniving bitch Barbara when she plays Alicia. Concetta Velasco (I hope I have the correct spelling...if not my apologies) will forever be my favourite senior actor. Then Marta Hazas was good also but I prefer her "Clara" instead. I am so happy I came across these two series and hope to find other good ones (sub-titled of course). Now back to Velvet!!
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Post by primusoars on Nov 4, 2016 22:15:35 GMT -5
You are right, this is a storyline hole. If Ana can help Rita financially with the treatment why can she rent the dress shop for herself. I don't know how Velvet management can work this out, Ana is working for them the project is for them and Carlos pay the rent and the construction of the dress shop. What does Velvet have to put out? And what stop Ana to inform Cafiero that Marco use the excuse of her needing the space to do the project to evict the worker in the dormitory, by doing so force her to stop the "ready to wear" project? Jonas and Pedro destroy the workshop just out of desperation? They are simple and honest people but not immoral or gangsters. Many holes in the S4.
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