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Post by BK on Nov 5, 2016 16:57:43 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match.
In particular, Patricia has battled her whole life for two things: nurture/care and respect for her ideas. (I think we can all agree that her parents failed on both fronts, but Gloria especially with the former and Rafael with the latter.) Alberto occasionally took care of or valued Patricia (making sure she had a place to live when Gloria kicked her out, making her temporary floor manager when Emilio was sick, leaving her in charge of the jewelry line), but neither consistently. The entire attraction of Valentin is that he would always look out for her—he was so in her thrall that he would never leave her AND he was rich enough to give her every material thing she wanted—while facilitating her career. But he never directly supported her as a business women; if you look at the first meeting she participates in with Valentin for Hoyas Velvet, he dismisses all of her suggestions and defers constantly to Enrique as a man and REAL business person. Jonas sees Patricia as a three-dimensional person, and doesn’t want her to marry Valentin for purely pragmatic reasons absent any love whatsoever (which is fair), but he simply isn’t in a position where he either nurtures her or respects her ideas—they never interact on either of those levels. Even though I think he sees her in a way no one else does (except Enrique!), their relationship is entirely sexual. They desire one another and that’s pretty much it.
Now, as to Enrique. I’m not going to defend him as a character in general, but his treatment of Patricia evolved pretty quickly from quick and dirty affair to a relationship that is probably the most fulfilling one of Patricia’s life. Enrique has several said “I’m here for you,” and then been there for her emotionally, when she felt completely alone, whether they were sleeping together at that point or not (e.g., after Alberto’s “death”). They definitely understand each other in a comprehensive way—I loved when Patricia called Enrique out after Barbara left him for being upset not because he was heart-broken but because his ego was bruised. This season I think it’s even clearer that Enrique is in love with Patricia even though he can’t/won’t admit it—his concern when she wasn’t feeling well, his distress when she broke things off (especially getting upset when she dismissed the emotional connection, eg “this isn’t a love story”), and his tearful/passionate reaction to hearing she’s pregnant. My interpretation is that he definitely wants to be with Patricia and his kid—remember how he told Cristina that he does think about Lourditas until he recalls she lives with her mother.
Finally, although perhaps at the very, very beginning Enrique tried to manipulate Patricia in his power struggle against Alberto, for YEARS since then he has pushed her into leadership roles, trusted her judgment, and treated her as an equal in business. She may not be a shareholder anymore, but she still is an executive at Velvet. Enrique definitely doubted Cristina and Barbara’s capabilities (and rightly so), but I can’t even think of the last time he questioned Patricia’s. He used to get mad when she didn’t side with him, but he never held that autonomy against her and never thought that what she did was incompetent. And it seems like they’ve been working side-by-side for the past four years.
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Post by Donna on Nov 5, 2016 17:48:47 GMT -5
Love this show! Disappointed with Season 4 so far..
La esclava blanca was my first Spanish show on Netflix..it was amazing too!!
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 5, 2016 18:54:17 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match. In particular, Patricia has battled her whole life for two things: nurture/care and respect for her ideas. (I think we can all agree that her parents failed on both fronts, but Gloria especially with the former and Rafael with the latter.) Alberto occasionally took care of or valued Patricia (making sure she had a place to live when Gloria kicked her out, making her temporary floor manager when Emilio was sick, leaving her in charge of the jewelry line), but neither consistently. The entire attraction of Valentin is that he would always look out for her—he was so in her thrall that he would never leave her AND he was rich enough to give her every material thing she wanted—while facilitating her career. But he never directly supported her as a business women; if you look at the first meeting she participates in with Valentin for Hoyas Velvet, he dismisses all of her suggestions and defers constantly to Enrique as a man and REAL business person. Jonas sees Patricia as a three-dimensional person, and doesn’t want her to marry Valentin for purely pragmatic reasons absent any love whatsoever (which is fair), but he simply isn’t in a position where he either nurtures her or respects her ideas—they never interact on either of those levels. Even though I think he sees her in a way no one else does (except Enrique!), their relationship is entirely sexual. They desire one another and that’s pretty much it. Now, as to Enrique. I’m not going to defend him as a character in general, but his treatment of Patricia evolved pretty quickly from quick and dirty affair to a relationship that is probably the most fulfilling one of Patricia’s life. Enrique has several said “I’m here for you,” and then been there for her emotionally, when she felt completely alone, whether they were sleeping together at that point or not (e.g., after Alberto’s “death”). They definitely understand each other in a comprehensive way—I loved when Patricia called Enrique out after Barbara left him for being upset not because he was heart-broken but because his ego was bruised. This season I think it’s even clearer that Enrique is in love with Patricia even though he can’t/won’t admit it—his concern when she wasn’t feeling well, his distress when she broke things off (especially getting upset when she dismissed the emotional connection, eg “this isn’t a love story”), and his tearful/passionate reaction to hearing she’s pregnant. My interpretation is that he definitely wants to be with Patricia and his kid—remember how he told Cristina that he does think about Lourditas until he recalls she lives with her mother. Finally, although perhaps at the very, very beginning Enrique tried to manipulate Patricia in his power struggle against Alberto, for YEARS since then he has pushed her into leadership roles, trusted her judgment, and treated her as an equal in business. She may not be a shareholder anymore, but she still is an executive at Velvet. Enrique definitely doubted Cristina and Barbara’s capabilities (and rightly so), but I can’t even think of the last time he questioned Patricia’s. He used to get mad when she didn’t side with him, but he never held that autonomy against her and never thought that what she did was incompetent. And it seems like they’ve been working side-by-side for the past four years. Thanks for this perspective on their relationship. It is definitely giving me something to think about and puts their relationship in a different light for me. He has done so many horrible things that I think that is all we focus on!
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Post by Adrienne on Nov 5, 2016 18:56:48 GMT -5
In the Velvet budget they had to include everything, so the first offer was too low and Petra said no. Carlos contacted her and convinced her to accept the entire budget that Marco had assigned to them, while he will pay with his own money the remodeling/repairs. Ana even asks him why he knows about it and he says that it didn't matter, so I think that Cristina probably is going to take the merit for helping Ana giving Carlos that information and acting like she is her ally in Velvet. When Ana meets Marco she tells him that Petra accepted their offer and Carlos will pay the rest, Marco says that's not very professional, people paying with their own money something related to the company, Ana answers that Carlos was also part of Velvet, that he was a collaborator when they designed the Airsa uniforms. At the end Marco has to accept, it would have been weird to not accept such gift. Many times, the show shows things that doesn't have any sense at first, which are explained later, like how Carlos was able to know about Petra. You just have to wait, sometimes they don't close plots though, like when Luisa supposedly killed the man who blackmailed her in the first season. Adrienne, your husband got the show right, and this is also for you primusoars, if you try to focus too much in the plot you are not going to enjoy the show as much, because many times it has not sense at all, like Clara slapping Mateo, you have to relax, let you go and enjoy the ride. Thanks for explaining the interaction with Ana and Marci over Carlos helping. I don't speak enough Spanish to have caught that and am glad to know it wasn't ignored as an issue in the show.
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Post by Camille on Nov 5, 2016 19:18:06 GMT -5
I have not seen Episode 5 yet as I am waiting (and trying to be patient) for the sub-titles. Thank you to VV for doing the sub-titles! I really do appreciate it as I do not understand much Spanish but I am totally addicted to this show!!! Not sure why I am but I am! Northboundtrain said ~ I understand that perspective, but for me, seeing Cristina doing everything "perfectly" only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story -- it showed that even when Alberto had the seemingly "perfect" woman in front of him, doing and saying all the right things, he couldn't shake Ana...because his love for Ana was that deep, that strong. It's for that reason that I'll always think one of the most inspired writing choices in S1 occurred when Cristina set up the video of Alberto's father for his birthday. Ana and Alberto both looked positively heartsick when they realized that Cristina was the one who set the video up, because they both knew it was, on the surface, the "perfect" gift...not the typical gift from a shallow rich girl, but something thoughtful and kind that demonstrated Cristina's insight into Alberto. But then, later, Alberto went up to the roof and he and Ana had that joyful dance...a different gift, and a different kind of "perfect" that showed that while Cristina understood Alberto's need to mourn his father, Ana understood his need to move on and find happiness with her. I totally agree with the way you said Christina doing everything perfectly only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story! That is what really drew me in was through everything even when it seemed like he had the perfect woman in front of him, the relationship with Ana stood strong. He tried to do what he felt was the right thing after Ana left him and told him to marry Christina so that everyone's jobs would be saved. He tried to put himself totally into it but they had so much history! They had been best friends from day 1 and only built on that more and more through the years. You could see the struggle for him so many times and I absolutely adore MAS! He really makes you feel like you are right there feeling what he feels! I am so very ready for him to be back on the show! As for the plotline with Christina trying to help Carlos marry Ana...being married to someone else didn't keep Alberto and Ana apart before, why would you think it would now? Especially now that they have a son together! Even if Ana married Carlos before Alberto comes back, what they had will fall right back in place. The years he was in London writing her letters she never received didn't phase them. These years won't either! She will be mad at first thinking he let her believe he was dead but once she finds out he wrote and sent Adele, she will get over that and be right back where she was! I also think he is the reason she stays with Velvet. She believes he sacrificed everything for her to have that job, she won't walk away from it very easily not to mention her uncle's and all her friend's jobs are tied into her success. Jorja, Christina gifting Alberto with the video of his father for his birthday in S1 was not Christina's insight into Alberto or her idea. Patricia recommended that idea to Christina. Ana thought it was Christina's idea and that made Ana jealous because because she was probably thinking how can Alberto not fall for Christina, she is perfect and her gift mad Alberto forget he and Ana had plans. I totally agree with you about MAS acting, he brings his character to life and it seems so real. I also agree that Ana marrying Carlos is not going to make Alberto give up on Ana because it didn't work before and it won't wor now. Like you said, especially since they now have a child together. I hope he returns soon.
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Post by Christine on Nov 5, 2016 19:44:03 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match. In particular, Patricia has battled her whole life for two things: nurture/care and respect for her ideas. (I think we can all agree that her parents failed on both fronts, but Gloria especially with the former and Rafael with the latter.) Alberto occasionally took care of or valued Patricia (making sure she had a place to live when Gloria kicked her out, making her temporary floor manager when Emilio was sick, leaving her in charge of the jewelry line), but neither consistently. The entire attraction of Valentin is that he would always look out for her—he was so in her thrall that he would never leave her AND he was rich enough to give her every material thing she wanted—while facilitating her career. But he never directly supported her as a business women; if you look at the first meeting she participates in with Valentin for Hoyas Velvet, he dismisses all of her suggestions and defers constantly to Enrique as a man and REAL business person. Jonas sees Patricia as a three-dimensional person, and doesn’t want her to marry Valentin for purely pragmatic reasons absent any love whatsoever (which is fair), but he simply isn’t in a position where he either nurtures her or respects her ideas—they never interact on either of those levels. Even though I think he sees her in a way no one else does (except Enrique!), their relationship is entirely sexual. They desire one another and that’s pretty much it. Now, as to Enrique. I’m not going to defend him as a character in general, but his treatment of Patricia evolved pretty quickly from quick and dirty affair to a relationship that is probably the most fulfilling one of Patricia’s life. Enrique has several said “I’m here for you,” and then been there for her emotionally, when she felt completely alone, whether they were sleeping together at that point or not (e.g., after Alberto’s “death”). They definitely understand each other in a comprehensive way—I loved when Patricia called Enrique out after Barbara left him for being upset not because he was heart-broken but because his ego was bruised. This season I think it’s even clearer that Enrique is in love with Patricia even though he can’t/won’t admit it—his concern when she wasn’t feeling well, his distress when she broke things off (especially getting upset when she dismissed the emotional connection, eg “this isn’t a love story”), and his tearful/passionate reaction to hearing she’s pregnant. My interpretation is that he definitely wants to be with Patricia and his kid—remember how he told Cristina that he does think about Lourditas until he recalls she lives with her mother. Finally, although perhaps at the very, very beginning Enrique tried to manipulate Patricia in his power struggle against Alberto, for YEARS since then he has pushed her into leadership roles, trusted her judgment, and treated her as an equal in business. She may not be a shareholder anymore, but she still is an executive at Velvet. Enrique definitely doubted Cristina and Barbara’s capabilities (and rightly so), but I can’t even think of the last time he questioned Patricia’s. He used to get mad when she didn’t side with him, but he never held that autonomy against her and never thought that what she did was incompetent. And it seems like they’ve been working side-by-side for the past four years. I agree with you I said almost the same thing in one of my post . It is not just about sex for them they love each other since they met the problem is they cannot trust each other he thinks that she doesn't care and she thinks that he doesn't care either so they play this game of I can't trust you but we can have sex and pretend to not care about each other. Eventually they are going to be together and more drama when Barbara comes back, I feel bad for valentine he is so sweet but he is way out of his league 😩
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Post by northboundtrain on Nov 5, 2016 20:01:33 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match. Thank you for this post...as strongly as I feel about Enrique and not wanting him with Patricia, I do believe some of what you're saying is absolutely correct (not all -- I can't concede all!) and that the show is going to end up putting them together. This is great insight into Patricia, and I don't see anything to disagree with here at all. I love Jonas/Patricia, but I agree that we didn't really get to see them have the kind of conversations that would need to be the building blocks for a stronger relationship (that's what I was hoping we'd see this season, actually). I agree with this, but I worry about what that means for the relationships she has had...I mean, the bar is so low. And, here, I agree with parts, too...I agree that Patricia understands Enrique (as you said, she has him pegged), and I do even see signs that he feels more strongly for her than he wants to admit (the scenes you pointed out are good evidence). But, for me, the show has, even in S3, still put more emphasis on the lust they feel for each other rather than on the human connection I want to see Patricia making. Even in the previews for next episode, when he tells her to leave Valentin and raise the child with him (Enrique), they're in the middle of making out when he says all that. If that's the way it plays out, it's just going to end up feeding my impression that Enrique may still be driven more by lust/jealousy/possessiveness than by genuine love (as if he's really just offended by the idea that wimpy Valentin would be raising his kid). I also feel that, while Patricia understands Enrique, I don't know that he truly understands her...at least not all of her. He understands many of her desires (sexual and not), because he's driven by much of the same things, but I can't say it means he understands the complete woman. I'm not saying at all that it'll continue to play out this way -- it could be that the pregnancy will give them the opportunity to explore the deeper connection that I'm talking about. But that's how I feel right now. I'll also note that one thing that makes me feel like Jonas/Patricia was at one point the plan was that it was Jonas, not Enrique, who got all those scenes where he tried to convince Patricia not to marry Valentin. If the show were planning on Patricia/Enrique, it would have gone a long way in convincing me if it had been Enrique who was begging her not to do it. One quibble with this -- I do remember at least one scene in S3 where Enrique told Cristina or Barbara (or maybe both, can't remember) that he would handle Patricia or something. But I'll concede that this season we haven't seen him treat her as anything but an equal. Jorja, Christina gifting Alberto with the video of his father for his birthday in S1 was not Christina's insight into Alberto or her idea. Patricia recommended that idea to Christina. Ana thought it was Christina's idea and that made Ana jealous because because she was probably thinking how can Alberto not fall for Christina, she is perfect and her gift mad Alberto forget he and Ana had plans. Let me jump in here really quickly -- I'm actually the one who said that about Cristina's insight (Jorja was quoting and responding to me). I don't remember Patricia suggesting the video...all I remember is that Patricia intercepted the note from Alberto and went to tell Cristina that Alberto would be at Velvet at midnight. That allowed Cristina to set up the video.
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Post by Camille on Nov 5, 2016 20:49:24 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match. Thank you for this post...as strongly as I feel about Enrique and not wanting him with Patricia, I do believe some of what you're saying is absolutely correct (not all -- I can't concede all!) and that the show is going to end up putting them together. This is great insight into Patricia, and I don't see anything to disagree with here at all. I love Jonas/Patricia, but I agree that we didn't really get to see them have the kind of conversations that would need to be the building blocks for a stronger relationship (that's what I was hoping we'd see this season, actually). I agree with this, but I worry about what that means for the relationships she has had...I mean, the bar is so low. And, here, I agree with parts, too...I agree that Patricia understands Enrique (as you said, she has him pegged), and I do even see signs that he feels more strongly for her than he wants to admit (the scenes you pointed out are good evidence). But, for me, the show has, even in S3, still put more emphasis on the lust they feel for each other rather than on the human connection I want to see Patricia making. Even in the previews for next episode, when he tells her to leave Valentin and raise the child with him (Enrique), they're in the middle of making out when he says all that. If that's the way it plays out, it's just going to end up feeding my impression that Enrique may still be driven more by lust/jealousy/possessiveness than by genuine love (as if he's really just offended by the idea that wimpy Valentin would be raising his kid). I also feel that, while Patricia understands Enrique, I don't know that he truly understands her...at least not all of her. He understands many of her desires (sexual and not), because he's driven by much of the same things, but I can't say it means he understands the complete woman. I'm not saying at all that it'll continue to play out this way -- it could be that the pregnancy will give them the opportunity to explore the deeper connection that I'm talking about. But that's how I feel right now. I'll also note that one thing that makes me feel like Jonas/Patricia was at one point the plan was that it was Jonas, not Enrique, who got all those scenes where he tried to convince Patricia not to marry Valentin. If the show were planning on Patricia/Enrique, it would have gone a long way in convincing me if it had been Enrique who was begging her not to do it. One quibble with this -- I do remember at least one scene in S3 where Enrique told Cristina or Barbara (or maybe both, can't remember) that he would handle Patricia or something. But I'll concede that this season we haven't seen him treat her as anything but an equal. Jorja, Christina gifting Alberto with the video of his father for his birthday in S1 was not Christina's insight into Alberto or her idea. Patricia recommended that idea to Christina. Ana thought it was Christina's idea and that made Ana jealous because because she was probably thinking how can Alberto not fall for Christina, she is perfect and her gift mad Alberto forget he and Ana had plans. Let me jump in here really quickly -- I'm actually the one who said that about Cristina's insight (Jorja was quoting and responding to me). I don't remember Patricia suggesting the video...all I remember is that Patricia intercepted the note from Alberto and went to tell Cristina that Alberto would be at Velvet at midnight. That allowed Cristina to set up the video. Oops, Sorry Northbound and Jorja for the mixup. Reading all the threads getting caught up, I've been out of circuit. Thanks northbound for the clarification, i thought Christina asked Christina for suggestions, it's been a while, I'll have to go back and rewatch that episode which I love to do.
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Post by Latin Goddess on Nov 5, 2016 21:12:45 GMT -5
I haven't seen episode 5 yet but agree that Enrique and Patricia are a good match and would be happy together. Poor Valentin who has been used from the very beginning. I do beieve Enrique has to come to love Patricia but doesn't know it.
Carlos doesn't truly love Ana, he just wants to possess her and his ego can't handle the rejection he has experienced with her, so he's determined to "win". Remember it was Cristina who had to give him insight into Ana (with the new shop) and how to "win" her. He doesn't truly know her, even after 5 years. He is about the image he has and getting what he wants.
I want Clara to find out Marco is engaged.
What does bother me is that Alberto has not reached out to his best friend. He wrote letters to Ana, who never received them, but never reached out to his best friend Mateo.
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Post by Lara on Nov 5, 2016 22:14:08 GMT -5
I haven't seen episode 5 yet but agree that Enrique and Patricia are a good match and would be happy together. Poor Valentin who has been used from the very beginning. I do beieve Enrique has to come to love Patricia but doesn't know it. Carlos doesn't truly love Ana, he just wants to possess her and his ego can't handle the rejection he has experienced with her, so he's determined to "win". Remember it was Cristina who had to give him insight into Ana (with the new shop) and how to "win" her. He doesn't truly know her, even after 5 years. He is about the image he has and getting what he wants. I want Clara to find out Marco is engaged. What does bother me is that Alberto has not reached out to his best friend. He wrote letters to Ana, who never received them, but never reached out to his best friend Mateo. I tend to agree about Carlos. I struggle to see any chemistry between he and Ana. Don't know if that's purposely done or just how it comes off. They never really fit well and that seems even more pronounced this season. I can't think of any other reason besides the challenge and his ego a man would hang around a woman who doesn't love him and beg for crumbs. He knows this too. On the other hand, he is so controlling I could also have easily seen him giving up and moving on to some easier prey. According to to an interview with MAS, he did send Mateo letters. We'll see if that pans out or not. I'm more curious about with why he never called either of them.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 5, 2016 22:26:59 GMT -5
I definitely have sympathy for Pedro's state of mind, especially after he was up all night worrying about Rita. I just don't want them to cheapen how awful a decision it wasn't making it pointless, if that makes sense. So I was talking to my husband about Velvet last night. He has watched some of all three of the Spanish shows I have, but infrequently. He speaks Spanish and enjoys it for that reason among others, but isnt invested like I am because he doesn't get obsessed with things like I do and hasn't watched that much. We were talking about the things I was struggling with and he pointed at that for him he likes Velvet not for the storyline, but for the characters and how they interact with each other and in their environment. I'm wondering if that is more an issue than plot holes, because there have always been plot holes and aspects of the story line that has bothered me, but I loved the show regardless. Since I'm not as into A/A and am not that upset by MAS's absence I'm not maybe as upset as others by the storyline this season. I know a lot of people are really feeling the hole of having Alberto gone and not having your favorite couple at least interacting. Maybe missing those favorite character interactions gone is just making the plot hole problems all that much more obvious and annoying. (I do think the plot holes are worse this season too, so I'm not trying to down play anyone's frustration with the show right now.) I don't think that I am frustrated by it, is more a disappointment. The show started from S1 showed so much promise and yes you made the great point that because Alberto hasn't been on the show so long we miss his interactions with Ana and others. It seems like a hole fill with Carlos and Christina's nonsense and it doesn't feel real. I know this a TV series and not suppose to be real but it should somewhat reflect real life otherwise what is the point watching it.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 5, 2016 22:41:10 GMT -5
Yeah, the show definitely leaves a lot up to assumption. I agree that Alberto stripping her of her shares hurt the character. He did try to "make up for it" by telling Enzo that one of his conditions was that Patricia would stay in charge of jewelry, but the shares would have meant far, far more (especially since Joyas Velvet has fallen by the wayside and everyone working on it is now working on Raul's line instead). We've talked here about things that went wrong in S3 -- one of the things that actually went right, far better than in the other two seasons -- was Patricia's story. In S1, her only real story was how her vote made her a pawn in the Alberto/Gloria wars. In S2, her only story was as Enrique's sex toy. But, finally, in S3, she was firing on all cylinders...with her elevated role at Velvet and with her budding romance with Jonas. And then she showed tremendous character growth in the wake of Alberto's death and the siding with Ana over Cristina. I wish we could get the backstory on why all of that was abandoned to return her to her S2 story as Enrique's mistress. Exactly my take on it...I got Cristina coming unglued and wanting revenge. But then it veered into caricature territory (like the writers were going for cheap shocks: "Tune in next week to see Cristina PUSH ANA DOWN THE STAIRS!" "Tune in next week to see Cristina ATTACK ANA WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS!"), when I think the more sophisticated writing choice would have been to start rehabbing the character after her suicide attempt. I understand that perspective, but for me, seeing Cristina doing everything "perfectly" only underscored the strength of Alberto/Ana's love story -- it showed that even when Alberto had the seemingly "perfect" woman in front of him, doing and saying all the right things, he couldn't shake Ana...because his love for Ana was that deep, that strong. It's for that reason that I'll always think one of the most inspired writing choices in S1 occurred when Cristina set up the video of Alberto's father for his birthday. Ana and Alberto both looked positively heartsick when they realized that Cristina was the one who set the video up, because they both knew it was, on the surface, the "perfect" gift...not the typical gift from a shallow rich girl, but something thoughtful and kind that demonstrated Cristina's insight into Alberto. But then, later, Alberto went up to the roof and he and Ana had that joyful dance...a different gift, and a different kind of "perfect" that showed that while Cristina understood Alberto's need to mourn his father, Ana understood his need to move on and find happiness with her. I agree with your take on Cristina so much! It made Alberto choosing Ana so much more meaningful before they made Cristina go so crazy!! And I agree about Patricia. I found her the most interesting in season three when she was with Jonas and also still having power in the store. It just feels like she has regressed, which is frustrating when I was growing to like her so much. It was never clear to me what Velvet's shares mean? Alberto toke his 40% and Patricia's 20% ( total 60%) sold it to Cafiero, so he can be the major share holder and the condition is to launch Ana's carrier. The 60% was sold to Cafiero and Alberto should have that in a form of cash and out of the 60%, 20% cash will be Patricia's. Alberto blackmail Patricia to sign off the share to him but she is not getting the value of the stock back? Does anyone know the answer?
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Post by carlucc on Nov 5, 2016 23:03:40 GMT -5
Primusoars: " t was never clear to me what Velvet's shares mean? Alberto toke his 40% and Patricia's 20% ( total 60%) sold it to Cafiero, so he can be the major share holder and the condition is to launch Ana's carrier. The 60% was sold to Cafiero and Alberto should have that in a form of cash and out of the 60%, 20% cash will be Patricia's. Alberto blackmail Patricia to sign off the share to him but she is not getting the value of the stock back? Does anyone know the answer
Patricia exchanged her shares for the photos of Jonas and her kissing. He threatened to show Valentin. She signed off the shares to him and took the photos and the negatives.
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Post by Lara on Nov 5, 2016 23:42:20 GMT -5
Primusoars- Patricia got zero money for her shares. That was probably the worst thing Alberto did on the show. I always wondered what happened to the house. Patricia owned part of it.
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Post by primusoars on Nov 6, 2016 0:16:37 GMT -5
I’m chiming in with an apparently very unpopular opinion because I think someone needs to make an argument for Patricia and Enrique’s relationship. Don’t get me wrong, Enrique has often been terrible, and Patricia too at times has done rather venal things, but I truly believe that the show has been taking pains to show over several seasons that they are a good match. In particular, Patricia has battled her whole life for two things: nurture/care and respect for her ideas. (I think we can all agree that her parents failed on both fronts, but Gloria especially with the former and Rafael with the latter.) Alberto occasionally took care of or valued Patricia (making sure she had a place to live when Gloria kicked her out, making her temporary floor manager when Emilio was sick, leaving her in charge of the jewelry line), but neither consistently. The entire attraction of Valentin is that he would always look out for her—he was so in her thrall that he would never leave her AND he was rich enough to give her every material thing she wanted—while facilitating her career. But he never directly supported her as a business women; if you look at the first meeting she participates in with Valentin for Hoyas Velvet, he dismisses all of her suggestions and defers constantly to Enrique as a man and REAL business person. Jonas sees Patricia as a three-dimensional person, and doesn’t want her to marry Valentin for purely pragmatic reasons absent any love whatsoever (which is fair), but he simply isn’t in a position where he either nurtures her or respects her ideas—they never interact on either of those levels. Even though I think he sees her in a way no one else does (except Enrique!), their relationship is entirely sexual. They desire one another and that’s pretty much it. Now, as to Enrique. I’m not going to defend him as a character in general, but his treatment of Patricia evolved pretty quickly from quick and dirty affair to a relationship that is probably the most fulfilling one of Patricia’s life. Enrique has several said “I’m here for you,” and then been there for her emotionally, when she felt completely alone, whether they were sleeping together at that point or not (e.g., after Alberto’s “death”). They definitely understand each other in a comprehensive way—I loved when Patricia called Enrique out after Barbara left him for being upset not because he was heart-broken but because his ego was bruised. This season I think it’s even clearer that Enrique is in love with Patricia even though he can’t/won’t admit it—his concern when she wasn’t feeling well, his distress when she broke things off (especially getting upset when she dismissed the emotional connection, eg “this isn’t a love story”), and his tearful/passionate reaction to hearing she’s pregnant. My interpretation is that he definitely wants to be with Patricia and his kid—remember how he told Cristina that he does think about Lourditas until he recalls she lives with her mother. Finally, although perhaps at the very, very beginning Enrique tried to manipulate Patricia in his power struggle against Alberto, for YEARS since then he has pushed her into leadership roles, trusted her judgment, and treated her as an equal in business. She may not be a shareholder anymore, but she still is an executive at Velvet. Enrique definitely doubted Cristina and Barbara’s capabilities (and rightly so), but I can’t even think of the last time he questioned Patricia’s. He used to get mad when she didn’t side with him, but he never held that autonomy against her and never thought that what she did was incompetent. And it seems like they’ve been working side-by-side for the past four years. Thank for your analysis of this relation with such clarity and intelligence, I totally agree with you. This two characters offered insights of individuals grow up in a wealthy dysfunctional family, Enrique was not a favorite of Gerado, Christina is. And Gerado must be a ruthless parent to have to apologize to his children for how he had raised them. And the storyline showed how complicated their relation is and it is much more than just Sex. May be this is the relationship they both needed.
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