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Post by Lara on Jul 8, 2016 1:04:40 GMT -5
I really think Alberto could have kept his shares and helped her, of course they needed a way to write him out. While I believe Ana's talented, I also think she's gotten some unfair advantages due to Alberto. Like you said Northbound, he basically already chose Ana as the Airsa designer even before anyone submitted sketches. I wish they would have played up her design skills beforehand. I know she did Phillipe Ray, but it would have been nice to see her sketching from the start. As for Alberto helping her, I just think it would have been more empowering as a woman to show that she was able to climb out of that huge hole all on her own. I hope she won't be Coco Chanel level when S4 hits, I want to see her successful, but not over the top.
I totally forgot about Patricia burning the letter! Even still, he found out soon after, so it wasn't that damaging. I grew to really like and feel bad for Patricia throughout the series and was glad she didn't become an outright villain. She just seems so alone, so I definitely would like to see an established relationship between Ana, Alberto Jr. and Patricia in S4. Followed by an improved relationship between she and Alberto. I would like to see him make amends for forcing her to sign her shares away. I wonder if she'll still be married to Valentin when the show returns. The fact that she married him was a shock. Surely she could have found another wealthy guy to marry that she was actually attracted to. I can see something happening between she and Marco. There were a few lingering glances between them. I don't see a Marco/Ana relationship, mainly because of Carlos being on the scene. He would never allow it to happen. I also think it would be harder for Ana to extricate herself from the relationship once Alberto reappears. Being in a relationship with Carlos seems better for the storyline. I so want him dead!
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Post by northboundtrain on Jul 9, 2016 13:40:13 GMT -5
I really think Alberto could have kept his shares and helped her, of course they needed a way to write him out. They could have written around it, but I think they wanted to go for the more dramatic angle of Alberto making the sacrifice for her and Ana realizing what he was willing to do atone for everything that had happened. I also liked how Alberto handing everything over to Enzo/Marco threw everything into chaos where Mateo, Enrique, and Raul were concerned. Yeah, they touched on it here and there, but it would have been cool to see Ana sketching more than we did. Yeah, I've always felt for Patricia. One of the first lines of the show that really stuck with me was when she told Gloria that when Alberto arrived, she disappeared. I always thought that line was really beautiful and gave Patricia a depth beyond "Alberto's bratty little sister." She just wants to have a seat at the table, as she should. It struck me during S3 how surprising it was that we never really saw Patricia dating/looking to get married in S1 and S2, as many women of her age and social status would have been doing. She used Enrique for sex and to gain influence at the store, but there was never any indication that I can remember that she was angling to get him to marry her or even that she loved him. With Valentin, I think it was less about his money (at least at first) and far more about the fact that the Alcocers had the mines Barbara/Cristina were after. The Alcocers were in a position to help Velvet, which presented Patricia with an opportunity to force her way into Barbara/Cristina's jewelry line. If he didn't have the mines and were just a rich dude, I don't know that she would have bothered, because you're right, it should have been easy for her to find a rich guy she was attracted to if that was all she wanted. Now...I also really, really got to love Patricia/Jonas by the end of S3, and I do believe that by the time Patricia's wedding day she was starting to feel something for Jonas that she was NOT comfortable with, which could have been another factor pushing her toward Valentin. At the very least, she was aware that she was attracted to Jonas, enjoyed bantering with him, and appreciated that he SAW her in a way Valentin did not. Basically, Jonas was more of a match for her than Valentin could ever be -- and Jonas knew it and SAID it to her face (which I think Patricia had to respect). But Jonas is also a clerk and a "peasant" -- he couldn't offer her what Valentin could. Ignoring Jonas' pleas was Patricia proving to herself that she could carry through with her plan, Jonas or no Jonas. That's why I was so surprised and disappointed when they stopped sharing scenes after her wedding...Jonas even stopped talking about her altogether! Either the writers GENUINELY meant for Jonas/Patricia to never go anywhere OR they dropped the story midstream. SO disappointing, because Patricia/Jonas had the potential to be another great love story for the show...certainly, IMO, better than putting her back with Enrique, which is less a love story and more a train wreck. I did notice those -- it's certainly possible. I'd still prefer Jonas, but Marco's much better than Enrique. |
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Post by Lara on Jul 10, 2016 0:35:33 GMT -5
[q]It struck me during S3 how surprising it was that we never really saw Patricia dating/looking to get married in S1 and S2, as many women of her age and social status would have been doing. She used Enrique for sex and to gain influence at the store, but there was never any indication that I can remember that she was angling to get him to marry her or even that she loved him.
With Valentin, I think it was less about his money (at least at first) and far more about the fact that the Alcocers had the mines Barbara/Cristina were after. The Alcocers were in a position to help Velvet, which presented Patricia with an opportunity to force her way into Barbara/Cristina's jewelry line. If he didn't have the mines and were just a rich dude, I don't know that she would have bothered, because you're right, it should have been easy for her to find a rich guy she was attracted to if that was all she wanted.
Now...I also really, really got to love Patricia/Jonas by the end of S3, and I do believe that by the time Patricia's wedding day she was starting to feel something for Jonas that she was NOT comfortable with, which could have been another factor pushing her toward Valentin. At the very least, she was aware that she was attracted to Jonas, enjoyed bantering with him, and appreciated that he SAW her in a way Valentin did not. Basically, Jonas was more of a match for her than Valentin could ever be -- and Jonas knew it and SAID it to her face (which I think Patricia had to respect).
But Jonas is also a clerk and a "peasant" -- he couldn't offer her what Valentin could. Ignoring Jonas' pleas was Patricia proving to herself that she could carry through with her plan, Jonas or no Jonas.
That's why I was so surprised and disappointed when they stopped sharing scenes after her wedding...Jonas even stopped talking about her altogether! Either the writers GENUINELY meant for Jonas/Patricia to never go anywhere OR they dropped the story midstream. SO disappointing, because Patricia/Jonas had the potential to be another great love story for the show...certainly, IMO, better than putting her back with Enrique, which is less a love story and more a train wreck.[/q]
Yeah, the randomness of the marriage was surprising. I don't think they were necessarily after the mines, just for Alcocers to construct and design their jewlery. I was hoping Patricia would dump Valentin after he signed, but she was enjoying the jewelry and lifestyle he was lavishing on her too much. I thought she would make the best of it, but the wedding night showed otherwise. I loved her line when she found out about the mine being buried, this can only happen to me. That pretty much sums up her character. Since the mine was saved, I guess the business and money will continue to roll in. So she might have stayed married to him. Down the line I'm not sure I see them doing another pairing between different social classes. I feel like they've done it with Alberto and Ana. I don't know if I can see a character like Patricia going for a store clerk/tailor even if she is/was in a loveless marriage. I can definitely see them putting her with Marco and giving her a happy ending.. a rich, good looking, powerful man who can hold his own with Alberto. Though, hopefully they will have a better relationship going forward.
I also hope Raul get some love next season and some good things happen to Blanca.
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Post by northboundtrain on Jul 10, 2016 12:11:05 GMT -5
I loved her line when she found out about the mine being buried, this can only happen to me. That pretty much sums up her character. Exactly. That was hilarious! What first made me interested in Patricia/Jonas was the way they can be compared/contrasted with Ana/Alberto...it's true that on the surface the story is one of an upper-class Marquez with a lowly Velvet worker, but I think there are enough key differences that it doesn't feel like a retread. For example, we know Ana/Alberto fell in love as children, before they fully appreciated the idea that they weren't "supposed" to be together. They were just too little to get it, and by the time they did get it, it was too late because they were already in love. Patricia/Jonas get it, though, because they had over two decades' worth of "this is the way things are" drummed into their heads before they met, which makes getting them together more complicated. There's also the gender role issue...if Ana hadn't become a famous designer and just stayed a seamstress at Velvet, Alberto and basically all of Madrid society wouldn't have seen anything wrong with Alberto being the "breadwinner" and having more power/influence than his wife did, because that's the way so many marriages back then worked (show examples being Enrique/Barbara, Rafael/Gloria, and Rafael/Isabel). Here, the situation is flipped...if Patricia did get together with Jonas, she would have the power/influence/money while her husband, far from being the "breadwinner," would be a clerk from the village. Today, few would bat an eye, but in 1960s Madrid I don't know how common something like that would have been. So I think that adds a layer to that potential relationship that we didn't see Alberto/Ana have to deal with. Finally, Patricia/Jonas have such a different vibe to them than Ana/Alberto do because the characters' personalities are all so different...Patricia's more cynical and sarcastic than Ana, and Jonas is less guarded than Alberto. Now, that said... You could be right about this. For as much potential as I see with Patricia/Jonas, it might be that the writers don't see her as a character willing to cross that class divide. And they also stopped sharing scenes after she married Valentin, with the exception of that one scene with Marco/Lucia as they set up the jewelry displays. So I'm fully prepared for S4 to come and Patricia/Jonas to be a distant memory. I do think that Patricia/Marco is possible. At the very least, I believe the writers were trying to keep their options open and that's why they had them share those flirty scenes. |
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Post by Lara on Jul 11, 2016 17:03:47 GMT -5
The gender reversal was another key issue I was thinking about. You are absolutely right, it is different for men and women. If Ana and Clara were getting put down, imagine would Jonas would get if he and Patricia ever publicly got together. I guess that's why I never got invested in Patricia/Jonas because it never seemed viable to me. I also didn't like that she just had sex with him to keep him quiet and he went along with it. I think it might be a nice to have Jonas date someone who didn't work at the store.
Marco kind of fits the bill as the only man available at this point for Patricia. Enrique is just too sleazy but then again so is she.
I've been rewatching some eps and I've been wondering about two things. Didn't Christina and Ana get pregnant at the same time? Christina looked so much further along, even after she was outed as lying about being 6 months. I also don't get how the hospital didn't bust her with the fake belly. Lol Another thing I was puzzled about was how Christina never realized Alberto's past with Ana and that they were briefly engaged. I know the cousin in S1 was talking about the fainting at the funeral. If he and Christina were in the same social circles, I can't imagine she would not know it was Ana. In fact, when she asked Ana to make her wedding dress, I thought it would be revealed she did know, but that never happened.
Another minor observation, no Gloria at Alberto's memorial was a little odd.
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Post by northboundtrain on Jul 11, 2016 20:34:29 GMT -5
The gender reversal was another key issue I was thinking about. You are absolutely right, it is different for men and women. If Ana and Clara were getting put down, imagine would Jonas would get if he and Patricia ever publicly got together. I guess that's why I never got invested in Patricia/Jonas because it never seemed viable to me. I also didn't like that she just had sex with him to keep him quiet and he went along with it. Yeah, for most of the time they interacted early on the first time I watched S3, I really didn't care for them because I didn't see it going anywhere -- I thought it was just sex. It was only as her marriage to Valentin got closer and Jonas seemed more upset and jealous that I thought there might be something more to explore there. And then I appreciated the relationship a lot more once I watched S3 again from the beginning after it finished airing. Yeah, if Patricia does get together with Marco, I'd want to see Jonas with someone outside the store. Wow, I hadn't realized but you're right...if we assume Cristina got pregnant the second time she seduced Victor, and if we assume Ana and Alberto slept together when she spent the night at his house, then they would have conceived their children on the same night even though, as you said, Cristina was the more obviously pregnant of the two. I guess we're just supposed to chalk it up to Cristina simply showing more than Ana. Either that or Ana's pregnancy was a last minute addition to the plot (possible if they were late in planning out the stories for S4 and what to do about MAS's Sense8 filming). Another good catch! I hadn't thought of that. I do remember the cousin talking about the fainting, but I think it's plausible that no one in the social circle was capable of identifying Ana by name...at most, there might have been talk about a pretty brunette seamstress, but that could describe a bunch of the Velvet workers. And back then Cristina was deliriously happy over the engagement that she probably didn't think it was worth a second thought. But if someone brought it up to her later in her marriage, after she'd had time to see the friendship between Alberto/Ana, I think then she might have been more open to suspicion. I just took that as her disliking him that much that she'd just stay away. She also probably knows no one would have wanted her there. |
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Post by Lara on Jul 12, 2016 23:34:30 GMT -5
I think it was most likely an oversight making her look much bigger than Anna, the hospital bump scene definitely was. The only other possible reason is that she was still trying to fool people into thinking it was Alberto's baby. I know she more or less admitted it to Raul and she was outed in the papers (btw, Victor was such a dimwit not to realized) but she was still telling Patricia and alike that she was having Alberto's baby. That's another thing that surprised me, Alberto's extreme reaction to finding out it was not his baby. I get that he probably warmed to the idea of having a child and was disappointed, plus he was made a fool of, but I thought he would be more relieved not to be tied to Christina forever. I was surprised he got the annulment so fast, but I'm assume it was because of MAS leaving. They couldn't have him come back 5 years later still married to Christina.
I would think somebody would have recognized Ana as the girl from the store who fainted. They seem like they run in small circles, so that was a bit of a plot hole for me. You're right in general about Christina, she was so happy it completely blinded her. I mean it never occurred to her that a guy she's been chasing for years suddenly asked her out and proposed days later? He always looked miserable around her and didn't want to even touch her. He cheated and he he obviously didn't care to even try to pretend he cared. I loved when Enrique told her why Alberto married her. Yet she still wanted to stay married! I guess she never found out about it bring her father's idea. I'm surprised we didn't see the father back when Alberto dumped her.
I thought maybe Gloria might have wanted to keep up appearances. I near felt she hated him. Did she do crappy things to him? Yes. But I never saw extreme hatred towards him.
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Post by northboundtrain on Jul 13, 2016 21:22:11 GMT -5
I think it was most likely an oversight making her look much bigger than Anna, the hospital bump scene definitely was. The only other possible reason is that she was still trying to fool people into thinking it was Alberto's baby. I know she more or less admitted it to Raul and she was outed in the papers (btw, Victor was such a dimwit not to realized) but she was still telling Patricia and alike that she was having Alberto's baby. Oooh...I hadn't thought about that, but that's a seriously good explanation that makes sense! I think you're right. I'm going to confess, I also thought his reaction was sort of...a lot. I mean, MAS went all in for it, so I think he was directed to, and I really do love the shot of him out by the fountain.... The first time I watched it, I was like, "Seriously? He's doing this in the hospital?" In the end, I tried looking at it in a different way...that he was upset about a combination of things and had just hit his absolute breaking point. Part of it is just what you said, that he was reacting to being played for a fool after he spent months mentally preparing to be a father. But I think the other part of it was that he was letting out all of the anger and sadness he'd been bottling up inside over everything that had happened up to that point. In front of Ana and Mateo, he tried to put on a brave face and be optimistic. In front of Cristina, he tried to be firm and calm. But when he was running through the hospital, Ana, Mateo, and Cristina weren't around, so he could just give into the rage and the hurt...get it out of his system. In the early days right before and after the engagement, I think she figured he was miserable because of Velvet's bankruptcy and his father's death. And then, every once in a while, they'd have some sweet moments where he'd laugh and smile, which I think made it easier for her to accept his moodiness. During their marriage, she seemed fully aware that he wasn't happy, which is why she kept pushing to spend more time with him and for them to have a child. But I don't think she suspected he was cheating. I was surprised, too. The actor must not have been available. I just did a quick search, and it looks like he's pretty active with a lot of other projects going on. Maybe not hate, but I don't think she liked him or looked at him as her son. You have a point about how she might have at least wanted to keep up appearances. But the show's budget and/or availability of the actress also might have had to do with her absence. |
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Post by Admin on Jul 13, 2016 23:37:08 GMT -5
Yeah that hospital scene with Alberto was quite a lot but then again it made complete sense to me. So much had happened to him and then to find out that right on top of it all. That was definitely his breaking point. I think he may have reacted slightly different had he still been with Ana, but since he wasn't and that being a reason why, it just devastated him. He definitely needed to let it all out.
Cristina was so blissfully unaware of how miserable Alberto was with her at the beginning. Obviously they had their sweet little moments but those moments didn't come as often. They became very rare once they actually got married. I think when Isabel, Alberto's mom, started living with them, you really got a sense with how protective she was about Alberto. I know this was after she found out about sara so she kind of had her reasons for being that way, but I mean, it was his mom. I do think it was around that point that she realized just how miserable he was and she felt as though she was going to lose him.
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Post by Lara on Jul 14, 2016 15:04:57 GMT -5
I think the only time he seemed happy with Christina after they were married was right when they got back from their honeymoon. When Mateo once asked him if he could fall in love with Christina if there was no Ana, he said yes. So maybe ignorance was bliss, but when they returned and he saw Ana again, all his feelings came back. Alberto didn't even pretend to care about Christina's feelings anymore and she lashed out more. I think Isabel's presence made Christina see how affectionate and caring Alberto could be when he cared about someone. I don't think she was necessarily jealous, but she took notice of him coming home early, dance with his mom and generally just spend time, all things he should also be doing with Christina but never did. So I think a lightbulb definitely went off about how different he was with her. It's pretty sad that even after he admitted never loving her, she still wanted him.
The piece of the story that I felt was missing was Christina's father. It's almost like Alberto ripped him off, so to speak. He married her long enough to get the money, then soon after wanted an annulment. The dad was so instrumental in making the marriage happen that I thought it was a plot hole not to at least confront Alberto. Unfortunately for Alberto, he probably never imagined how psycho she could be so it didn't end up being as easy as it could have been.
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Post by Admin on Jul 14, 2016 15:53:22 GMT -5
I think the only time he seemed happy with Christina after they were married was right when they got back from their honeymoon. When Mateo once asked him if he could fall in love with Christina if there was no Ana, he said yes. So maybe ignorance was bliss, but when they returned and he saw Ana again, all his feelings came back. Alberto didn't even pretend to care about Christina's feelings anymore and she lashed out more. I think Isabel's presence made Christina see how affectionate and caring Alberto could be when he cared about someone. I don't think she was necessarily jealous, but she took notice of him coming home early, dance with his mom and generally just spend time, all things he should also be doing with Christina but never did. So I think a lightbulb definitely went off about how different he was with her. It's pretty sad that even after he admitted never loving her, she still wanted him. The piece of the story that I felt was missing was Christina's father. It's almost like Alberto ripped him off, so to speak. He married her long enough to get the money, then soon after wanted an annulment. The dad was so instrumental in making the marriage happen that I thought it was a plot hole not to at least confront Alberto. Unfortunately for Alberto, he probably never imagined how psycho she could be so it didn't end up being as easy as it could have been. Very true! She never really got to see how he interacted with Ana in that kind of way either. And yeah I wish she would have just been done with him but that just doesn't seem likely. I was definitely anticipating Gerardo to say something, but it just never happened. I'm guessing it did have to do with the actor's availability because we didn't even see him after Cristina was hospitalized. They briefly mentioned with Enrique at how he didn't want to see her but he was an integral part of the reason why it all even happened. Though, if I was Cristina, i'd have been really upset with him for even making a deal like that. |
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Post by Lara on Jul 14, 2016 21:31:55 GMT -5
I think Christina's crazy will come back mildly when Alberto reappears. It might be more about how he ruined her life than still loving him. I mean, he married her under false pretenses, cheated on her both physically and emotionally, divorced her without her consent and got another woman pregnant. Christina is a divorcee, outed as lying about her pregnancy for all to see, had a child by some random guy, was thrown into a psychiatric hospital and had her jewelry project taken away. Plus, Alberto set everything up for his true love to become successful and she had his child. Christina was the belle of the ball at one time. She is going to be BITTER and resentful, especially when Ana and Alberto get everything they have always wanted. She was screwed over at the beginning by Alberto and her father, but the post split crazy was all her.
I was wondering if Christina knew the father made the deal or just thought Alberto went to him for money after they got together. That entire reveal should have been more thoroughly explored. You're probably right about the actor's availability. I'm glad Enrique stepped up as, somewhat, a decent man when Christina was terrorizing Ana.
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Post by northboundtrain on Jul 15, 2016 19:06:49 GMT -5
Yeah that hospital scene with Alberto was quite a lot but then again it made complete sense to me. So much had happened to him and then to find out that right on top of it all. That was definitely his breaking point. I think he may have reacted slightly different had he still been with Ana, but since he wasn't and that being a reason why, it just devastated him. He definitely needed to let it all out. Yeah, the scene worked for me more when I considered all of that. I think Isabel's presence made Christina see how affectionate and caring Alberto could be when he cared about someone. I don't think she was necessarily jealous, but she took notice of him coming home early, dance with his mom and generally just spend time, all things he should also be doing with Christina but never did. So I think a lightbulb definitely went off about how different he was with her. I mentioned this in the Cristina thread, but IMO the reason Cristina wasn't comfortable with Isabel was because of what Isabel represented. I'm planning a post on it for my blog later, but basically it boils down to a couple of things: 1. Cristina clearly liked Alberto's father and they were on the same "side" because they both wanted her to marry Alberto. Isabel being alive tarnished Alberto's memories of his father, which Cristina was clearly uncomfortable with because their marriage is so closely tied to his father. This also presents a nice contrast with Ana, who never liked Rafael for obvious reasons but immediately bonded with Isabel (again, for obvious reasons). 2. Rafael discarded his first wife, Isabel, for a newer model, Gloria. Cristina found this out at a time when her own marriage to Alberto was a thin ice. It's possible she had a creeping fear that Alberto was about to discard her, too. We know the situations are different, but Cristina, as Alberto's wife who'd just been cheated on, would not see it that way. Isabel being around was a reminder of her own doomed marriage. Alberto definitely ripped off Gerardo...in the end, he did exactly what Ana told him to do in early S1: marry Cristina, save the store, and then leave Cristina for Ana. Aside from the actor not being available, it could also be that by the time we got to S3, Gerardo was ready to just wash his hands of the Alberto/Cristina marriage part of the deal. He was enthusiastic about it at the beginning of S1 and he threatened Alberto to make sure the marriage went through, but the further into S1 we got, the more nervous he seemed about having made the deal with Alberto when Alberto was so clearly unenthusiastic. There was also that one scene in S1 after they all had dinner at the Marquez mansion when he sat and had a quiet talk with Cristina and basically tried to signal to her that she was being blind to Alberto's true feelings. If Cristina hadn't been so crazy in love with Alberto, she might have taken Gerardo's words to heart and called off the engagement. But no matter Gerardo's feelings toward Cristina/Alberto's doomed marriage and whether or not he was sick of dealing with them, I agree with you that the viewers were cheated out of one last Gerardo/Alberto showdown. I'm glad Enrique stepped up as, somewhat, a decent man when Christina was terrorizing Ana. Enrique's concern for Cristina when she was having her breakdown is the only time I've remotely felt warm about the character. That was a nice scene. |
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Post by Lara on Jul 15, 2016 22:00:15 GMT -5
>>Alberto definitely ripped off Gerardo...in the end, he did exactly what Ana told him to do in early S1: marry Cristina, save the store, and then leave Cristina for Ana.
Aside from the actor not being available, it could also be that by the time we got to S3, Gerardo was ready to just wash his hands of the Alberto/Cristina marriage part of the deal. He was enthusiastic about it at the beginning of S1 and he threatened Alberto to make sure the marriage went through, but the further into S1 we got, the more nervous he seemed about having made the deal with Alberto when Alberto was so clearly unenthusiastic.
There was also that one scene in S1 after they all had dinner at the Marquez mansion when he sat and had a quiet talk with Cristina and basically tried to signal to her that she was being blind to Alberto's true feelings. If Cristina hadn't been so crazy in love with Alberto, she might have taken Gerardo's words to heart and called off the engagement.
But no matter Gerardo's feelings toward Cristina/Alberto's doomed marriage and whether or not he was sick of dealing with them, I agree with you that the viewers were cheated out of one last Gerardo/Alberto showdown.<,<
That's very possible about Gerardo washing his hands of the whole thing. The store was also making him money at that point so he was getting a return on his investment. That said, they definitely needed an Alberto/Gerardo showdown and a Christina/Gerardo one as well. I would be beyond angry if my father ever did that that to me, however well intentioned. Then again, knowing her obsession with Alberto, she may have not have minded.
They definitely softened Enrique up towards the end of S3. I guess Barbara and Christina had the villain role covered and there needed to be one voice of reason on their side.
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Post by Valerie on Mar 16, 2017 1:19:22 GMT -5
I cannot see episode 3 at all I am in Australia and we only have 1 and 2 seasons where can I girt 3 and 4 with English subtiltes ?
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