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Post by Lara on Sept 30, 2016 20:29:23 GMT -5
Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, separate corners...not that things are out of hand, but there's a little bit of tension, so... Alfi, I noticed that a few posts ago you said it's always about what Lara wants to happen. This may be a translation/language issue on one or both or all of our parts, but that's what the board is for...just sharing thoughts on what we want to happen or what we don't want to happen (see my endless griping about Patricia and Enrique) based on what we see the characters doing. Lara's basing what she thinks about the wedding on what she thinks of Ana. You disagree because you have another take on Ana's character. All takes are fine, and nothing could or should be considered fact except what's already happened on screen. Both of you have good takes on the way religion/history has been used on the show. While it hasn't affected everything, it has affected some things. Last thing, and this goes for everyone: Keep in mind that we've got a bunch of posters from different countries not just posting but lurking quietly and reading posts. Language issues may come up -- both posters and lurkers may read things and take offense even if no offense was meant, which WOULD lead to things becoming heated even if neither party intended that from the beginning. It's impossible to avoid all misunderstandings of tone and word choice, which I get -- just try to be as respectful of other points of view as possible and the problems and potential misunderstandings will be minimized. End of PSA. Back to your regularly scheduled speculation over Velvet. Thanks, Northbound. ๐ I suspect the translation and language is the issue. I posted my reply before I saw your post.
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Post by Lara on Sept 30, 2016 20:38:53 GMT -5
Good point about the message the show is sending out, Christine. In the real world a Carlos would definitely set off warning bells. His behavior and temper would just escalate to physical and verbal abuse. It was a very bad decision to write him back in for whatever plot reason they have. I thought the first 2 season were excellent and every character was consistent and their actions were logical. Unfortunately, S3 deviated from that. I sort of find the show has become a little misogynistic particularly with respect to Ana. It's like they won't let her succeed without a man. That's part of the reason I had hoped they would have built up Phillip Ray more. Alberto really made her into who she will be in S4. Yes, she would have found some success on her own, but not on that level and he definitely gave her the push. If he didn't give her the Airsa job then the full on collection opportunity, she probably would still be just designing for Dona Aurita's boutique while working as a seamstress. She didn't champion her cause enough, Alberto did a lot of that. Allowing Carlos back into her life after their history seems out of character for Ana. It wasn't as if they had an amicable break up. Finally, Alberto is with tons of women, empty relationships I'm sure but still, yet she is stuck with Carlos and is still shattered by Alberto's death. Before anyone starts, I'm not saying she needs to become the town bicycle or fall in love with someone else, but after 5 years she shouldn't be settling for a loveless relationship. Carlos just seems inserted for this storyline they created, even in S3 their relationship didn't feel organic. It just seems to me the show has a double standard for Alberto and Ana. It's always the woman who has to the one waiting or the innocent one. Even in S1, Ana and Cristina waited while Alberto lived his life. Seems like history will repeat itself, except she'll have the career she always wanted. I did like that they flipped the gender roles with Patricia and Alberto, with the latter being more about business and the former more about love. It just seems like in S3 & 4 Ans is getting the short end of the stick yet again.
Christine, I just saw that! Wow there are at least 3 NYers on this board. I had no idea he was here. I don't usually approach celebrities when I see them, much less stalk, but for him I might make an exception๐๐ at least walk around East 45th Street lol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 20:44:05 GMT -5
You have to put yourself in Ana place and only considerate what she knows about Carlos. He may hurt her when he grabbed her arm, but he was not dangerous, i think it was a mixture of pathetic reaction born from desperation and a possessive personality plus sleepiness because of the rejection. Why i think he was not dangerous? because how i read aggressive behaviour in other men and Alberto reaction, he would not have asked Carlos to stop, he would directly kicked his ass into the hospital, not just one punch, Ana would had not been able to stop that fight like she was.
And then you have to consider what Carlos does when Alberto dies, he only helps her, he is there for her, he tells her he is going to take care of her son, in her eyes he is a good friend who wants something else, he is friend zoned. And the scene of Carlos asking Ana marriage is there, and the shot with Ana looking herself in the mirror with a wedding dress like questioning if she is doing the right thing is there also.And if you add MAS words about how we are going to suffer with the story and that he wants revenge... i think writers are going to put everyone over the edge making the possibility of Ana marrying Carlos looks like something certain. I understand your positions about wanting Ana the most far away from Carlos, but that's the writers intention.
There is not joy without suffering.
Edit. this answer was for Christine. This is running fast.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 21:08:04 GMT -5
Carlucc, if my tone was too aggressive i apologize, it was not my intention, but i like to argue, and Lara makes it interesting. English is not my first language also, for me it's way more difficult to use abstract ideas and adjust my tone.
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Post by sunshine4 on Sept 30, 2016 23:03:24 GMT -5
Nope, that religion and era don't factor in the writing perspective is your opinion, it's not a fact, you can't build your arguments from that fallacy. When Alberto and Mateo did the striptease, with fully depilated gym bodies, listening a catchy english song, well, that was writers taking liberties with Spain's 50s to spice up the show, but when Ana was considered the lover of a married man, spanish socialites still abandoned the room when Raul presented herself as Philippe Ray, or when the police inquired Raul about his friend Toni it was with the intention of jailing him because homosexuality was forbidden, that's going with those times era. And yes, they diluted the fact that Spain was an ultra-catholic dictatorship (specially harsh in the 40s, prior the alliance with USA against the URSS), we are talking about executions and repression,ย but for this kind of love story going there is a big nope. Your wish, not based on Ana personality, actions, era nor any of the teasers they gave us. I never say Carlos is perfect, i say he looks perfect, few women will say no to a date with him if they didn't know him... and many women will still agree to a date knowing him. Nun for the next 30 years? that's real life, of course a woman has all the right to rebuild her life, i'm nobody to tell anyone how they should live their lives, but this is a romantic tale, and we are talking about Ana Ribera. Even Alberto having sex with other women didn't change the fact that the only woman he loved in his life was Ana, i think most people would not accept any of them falling in love with other men/women, and writers are also people .ย That's the first episode, and we know Marco will want to close the living area in Velvet, people will have to move, although it's a possibility that they are still living there. There is a jump in time again, there is a time difference because Ana's hair grows longer in the second wedding. If there was not consummation the marriage is not valid, i don't think they are going to get there though, i think Ana will discover everything prior the wedding. [bra I don't know much about Spain or Spanish culture but in the sixties was it still okay to marry a man who if Alberto didn't stepped in and demand that Carlos let Ann go Carlos would have broken her arm and what responsibilities does the writers have to young women watching velvet lots of wrong things happened in the 40 50 60 that doesn't mean that they cannot write their story differently keeping in mind that there are young women and men watching and no women or man should marry anyone that physically abused you I doesn't matter how good looking or rich they are they weren't even in a relationship when he lost his temper can you imagine living with someone like that. I know what Alfi is going to say that the writers are doing this to make us ๐ก but they could have gone the other way with the story let young people known that it is never okay to behavior the way Carlos did they could have wrote lines with Ann saying it to him the reason I can't marry you is because of you behavior towards me the time I broke up with you that is a story and a lesson that is good for everyone ๐ I agree!! I am sad and shocked she allowed him back into her life. She should have learned her lesson to stay away from him when he acted that way. Bad call bringing him back. I know it's to make us mad but that taking it a little too far, IMO.
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Post by sunshine4 on Sept 30, 2016 23:20:15 GMT -5
Good point about the message the show is sending out, Christine. In the real world a Carlos would definitely set off warning bells. His behavior and temper would just escalate to physical and verbal abuse. It was a very bad decision to write him back in for whatever plot reason they have. I thought the first 2 season were excellent and every character was consistent and their actions were logical. Unfortunately, S3 deviated from that. I sort of find the show has become a little misogynistic particularly with respect to Ana. It's like they won't let her succeed without a man. That's part of the reason I had hoped they would have built up Phillip Ray more. Alberto really made her into who she will be in S4. Yes, she would have found some success on her own, but not on that level and he definitely gave her the push. If he didn't give her the Airsa job then the full on collection opportunity, she probably would still be just designing for Dona Aurita's boutique while working as a seamstress. She didn't champion her cause enough, Alberto did a lot of that. Allowing Carlos back into her life after their history seems out of character for Ana. It wasn't as if they had an amicable break up. Finally, Alberto is with tons of women, empty relationships I'm sure but still, yet she is stuck with Carlos and is still shattered by Alberto's death. Before anyone starts, I'm not saying she needs to become the town bicycle or fall in love with someone else, but after 5 years she shouldn't be settling for a loveless relationship. Carlos just seems inserted for this storyline they created, even in S3 their relationship didn't feel organic. It just seems to me the show has a double standard for Alberto and Ana. It's always the woman who has to the one waiting or the innocent one. Even in S1, Ana and Cristina waited while Alberto lived his life. Seems like history will repeat itself, except she'll have the career she always wanted. I did like that they flipped the gender roles with Patricia and Alberto, with the latter being more about business and the former more about love. It just seems like in S3 & 4 Ans is getting the short end of the stick yet again. Christine, I just saw that! Wow there are at least 3 NYers on this board. I had no idea he was here. I don't usually approach celebrities when I see them, much less stalk, but for him I might make an exception๐๐ at least walk around East 45th Street lol. I agree. I think they made Ana into a different character and kind of a baby in Season 3. They also dropped the ball and made a mess of the "true feeling/meaning" of velvet.
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Post by sunshine4 on Sept 30, 2016 23:26:36 GMT -5
You have to put yourself in Ana place and only considerate what she knows about Carlos. He may hurt her when he grabbed her arm, but he was not dangerous, i think it was a mixture of pathetic reaction born from desperation and a possessive personality plus sleepiness because of the rejection. Why i think he was not dangerous? because how i read aggressive behaviour in other men and Alberto reaction, he would not have asked Carlos to stop, he would directly kicked his ass into the hospital, not just one punch, Ana would had not been able to stop that fight like she was. And then you have to consider what Carlos does when Alberto dies, he only helps her, he is there for her, he tells her he is going to take care of her son, in her eyes he is a good friend who wants something else, he is friend zoned. And the scene of Carlos asking Ana marriage is there, and the shot with Ana looking herself in the mirror with a wedding dress like questioning if she is doing the right thing is there also.And if you add MAS words about how we are going to suffer with the story and that he wants revenge... i think writers are going to put everyone over the edge making the possibility of Ana marrying Carlos looks like something certain. I understand your positions about wanting Ana the most far away from Carlos, but that's the writers intention. There is not joy without suffering. Edit. this answer wasย for Christine. This is running fast.ย The writers definitely love to torture us. Sometimes they take it too far. I can't take it ha! Hopefully they torture us with them getting engaged but not going through with it.
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Post by primusoars on Sept 30, 2016 23:36:26 GMT -5
Well said Lara and Christine. Carlos is not perfect and he is no saint. Ana wouldn't be in the predicament she's in right now if Carlos hadn't manipulated Alberto's situation to his advantage so that Ana would fall in his favor. What Carlos did by withholding Alberto's true whereabouts from Ana is unforgivable. Ana should not feel obligated to this man. She kindly asked if he could help her find out what really happened to Alberto and all he did was help himself. Alfi, you are right in that the writers like to do the unexpected, however, Lara is right in everything that she said. A/A have suffered long enough and so has the fans. They have kept A/A apart for 3 seasons, I really hope they appease us fans by not allowing a loveless marriage between A/C. If Ana learned nothing else from all her trials and tribulations with Alberto and Christina is that, it's a bad idea marry someone you do not love. The reason fans are frustrated with the writers is we don't get enough Alberto and Anna, the main reason we love the show were A/A. But in S3 we hardly see them together then S4 is going to be less. I think the producer messed up they assume MAS will be back to do S3 and S4 but he is over extended so the writers have to make do with the storylines that have as little Alberto in the episodes as possible and this is really really disappointing.
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Post by Christine on Oct 1, 2016 7:57:35 GMT -5
Carlucc, if my tone was too aggressive i apologize, it was not my intention, but i like to argue, and Lara makes it interesting. English is not my first language also, for me it's way more difficult to use abstract ideas and adjust my tone. Alfi there is a clip on antenna 3 with Ann reading Alberto's letters can you translate please mas voice is the narrator he is reading all or some of the letters that her uncle hid from her in episode one thanks ๐๐ฟ again
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Post by Christine on Oct 1, 2016 9:36:01 GMT -5
Well said Lara and Christine. Carlos is not perfect and he is no saint. Ana wouldn't be in the predicament she's in right now if Carlos hadn't manipulated Alberto's situation to his advantage so that Ana would fall in his favor. What Carlos did by withholding Alberto's true whereabouts from Ana is unforgivable. Ana should not feel obligated to this man. She kindly asked if he could help her find out what really happened to Alberto and all he did was help himself. Alfi, you are right in that the writers like to do the unexpected, however, Lara is right in everything that she said. A/A have suffered long enough and so has the fans. They have kept A/A apart for 3 seasons, I really hope they appease us fans by not allowing a loveless marriage between A/C. If Ana learned nothing else from all her trials and tribulations with Alberto and Christina is that, it's a bad idea marry someone you do not love. The reason fans are frustrated with the writers is we don't get enough Alberto and Anna, the main reason we love the show were A/A. But in S3 we hardly see them together then S4 is going to be less. I think the producer messed up they assume MAS will be back to do S3 and S4 but he is over extended so the writers have to make do with the storylines that have as little Alberto in the episodes as possible and this is really really disappointing. that is one of the reasons many reason another one is viewer wouldn't lost interest when mas left at the end of season 3 if the writers had paired marko trying to get with Ann people would have loved watching to watch them fighting it out he was New good looking and seem to be has stubborn has Ann is
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 11:24:11 GMT -5
Alfi there is a clip on antenna 3 with Ann reading Alberto's letters can you translate please mas voice is the narrator he is reading all or some of the letters that her uncle hid from her in episode one thanks ๐๐ฟ again Link? there are a lot of clips there.
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Post by Camille on Oct 1, 2016 14:22:42 GMT -5
Well said Lara and Christine. Carlos is not perfect and he is no saint. Ana wouldn't be in the predicament she's in right now if Carlos hadn't manipulated Alberto's situation to his advantage so that Ana would fall in his favor. What Carlos did by withholding Alberto's true whereabouts from Ana is unforgivable. Ana should not feel obligated to this man. She kindly asked if he could help her find out what really happened to Alberto and all he did was help himself. Alfi, you are right in that the writers like to do the unexpected, however, Lara is right in everything that she said. A/A have suffered long enough and so has the fans. They have kept A/A apart for 3 seasons, I really hope they appease us fans by not allowing a loveless marriage between A/C. If Ana learned nothing else from all her trials and tribulations with Alberto and Christina is that, it's a bad idea marry someone you do not love. The reason fans are frustrated with the writers is we don't get enough Alberto and Anna, the main reason we love the show were A/A. But in S3 we hardly see them together then S4 is going to be less. I think the producer messed up they assume MAS will be back to do S3 and S4 but he is over extended so the writers have to make do with the storylines that have as little Alberto in the episodes as possible and this is really really disappointing. Primusoars i completely agree with you. Certainly one of my biggest disappointments is that A/A have spent very little time together. It appears that they get one good day together and then bam, trouble in paradise. In S3 I think I read somewhere that the producers held up filming until MAS was available. I wish they would have done the same for S4. Based on loyal and new fans it would have been worth it. Also, maybe we could have gotten 13 episodes instead of 11, which I blame on Netflix. it would have been nice if Netflix would have changed their filming schedules to free up a little of MAS's time to finish the last season of Velvet. If MAS was able to film 6 episodes with the little time he had, imagine what a couple more weeks could have accomplished. This would maybe have allowed the writers to devote a little more time to A/A characters without rushing filming the final season. I think we all pretty much like what the writers have done thus far which is why we are all hooked on the show and that was when A/A had more air time. Which brings me back to your point, due to MAS absense the writers had to make due with the storylines which is frustrating.
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Post by primusoars on Oct 1, 2016 20:05:43 GMT -5
The reason fans are frustrated with the writers is we don't get enough Alberto and Anna, the main reason we love the show were A/A. But in S3 we hardly see them together then S4 is going to be less. I think the producer messed up they assume MAS will be back to do S3 and S4 but he is over extended so the writers have to make do with the storylines that have as little Alberto in the episodes as possible and this is really really disappointing. Primusoars i completely agree with you. Certainly one of my biggest disappointments is that A/A have spent very little time together. It appears that they get one good day together and then bam, trouble in paradise. In S3 I think I read somewhere that the producers held up filming until MAS was available. I wish they would have done the same for S4. Based on loyal and new fans it would have been worth it. Also, maybe we could have gotten 13 episodes instead of 11, which I blame on Netflix. it would have been nice if Netflix would have changed their filming schedules to free up a little of MAS's time to finish the last season of Velvet. If MAS was able to film 6 episodes with the little time he had, imagine what a couple more weeks could have accomplished. This would maybe have allowed the writers to devote a little more time to A/A characters without rushing filming the final season. I think we all pretty much like what the writers have done thus far which is why we are all hooked on the show and that was when A/A had more air time. Which brings me back to your point, due to MAS absense the writers had to make due with the storylines which is frustrating. To me Netflex's Sense 8 is not something worth watching, I tried and just can't get through it. The series is just bunch of random events and people put together, the writers Are Michael Straczynski, Lana Wachowski and Lillie Waschowski 2 brothers or sisters wanted something extraordinary but not quiet make it. They may be a great "Matrix" maker but certainly didn't work on Sense 8. So MAS embraces the Sense 8 series and neglect "Velvet". But the irony is no one will every remember Sense8 after the 2nd season is cancel, but viewer will always remember the first 2 seasons of Velvet. I hope his manager will have better judgement next time.
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Post by sunshine4 on Oct 1, 2016 23:35:31 GMT -5
The reason fans are frustrated with the writers is we don't get enough Alberto and Anna, the main reason we love the show were A/A. But in S3 we hardly see them together then S4 is going to be less. I think the producer messed up they assume MAS will be back to do S3 and S4 but he is over extended so the writers have to make do with the storylines that have as little Alberto in the episodes as possible and this is really really disappointing. that is one of the reasons many reason another one is viewer wouldn't lost interest when mas left at the end of season 3 if the writers had paired marko trying to get with Ann people would have loved watching to watch them fighting it out he was New good looking and seem to be has stubborn has Ann is I agree!! When he touched her face, towards the end if season 3, I had a little hope of Marco and Ana dating so much better than Carlos!! I would have made me satisfied until alberto came back.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 12:35:36 GMT -5
www.antena3.com/series/velvet/primera-carta-alberto-ana-narrada-miguel-angel-silvestre_20140225571bbad16584a8abb580b593.htmlLondon, September 17, 1951 Dear Ana, I just arrived in London and the only thing I think about is you're not here ... The city is ugly, the rain doesn't stop, and I can't stop thinking that, right now, if it were not for my father, we could be both together in Paris .... Far from everyone. And especially away from them ... I hate him so much, Ana .... I hate my father so much... that i don't think I can ever forgive him that he sent me here without allowing me to say goodbye to you. The school is almost worse than the city. They only let me to write just a letter and make a call a month .... Yesterday I called you at the galleries, but they passed me straight to my father, so I guess the next time i try they will do the same. But you know what ?, no matter what he does ... He, Gloria ... or your uncle. No matter how much they separate me from you because that's not going to make me stop loving you. And I swear I'll soon find out how we can be together ... I do not care if I have to make the school to expel me ... I'll do whatever it takes to get out of here and be with you. But meanwhile promise me you will not forget me... that every time you go up to the roof you are going to think of me ... Because it is the only thing that gives me strength. Remembering that ... our song and everything that has happened this year ... because it was the happiest of my life ... And I know it can not end this way. I know they you think I do not know what I do ... But I do know ... I do not care who your uncle is ... nor if you're an apprentice or ... a seamstress ... He ( Alberto's father) does not understand because he has not felt for anyone what I feel for you. He only cares about the business, and money ... but you know I do not care about that if we're together. I do not care if I have to work as an errand boy, or whatever, to be by your side ... Because I know i would be much happier. Anywhere, with you. Because you're the best thing that ever happened to me ... That is clear to me , God how i miss you.I feel alone. I do not have anyone to tell all this and i miss you every day. I miss you showing me the drawings of costumes that you will do when you work with a great designer (laugh) Philip Ray... And you speaking about Doรฑa Blanca and how badly she behaves with you ... I miss your smile, your kisses. .. Your little face ... and those freckles on your nose... I could not even bring the pictures you gave me for my birthday ... But I remember everything, Ana. I have all in my mind, I'll go crazy remembering so much. Write me, please write me and tell me you 're waiting miss me as much as i miss you... that if i would be in front of you, you would give me a kiss, And that you'll not forget me no matter what ... that you need me as much as I need you even though we are far away. And that we are going to see each other soon. Because I don't know how long I can get away from you. I don't know how long i'll stand here without you, Ana. I love you so much, Ana ... I love you more than I've ever loved anyone. Alberto Edit. In bold the changes MAS did to the text.
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