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Post by Christine on Sept 30, 2016 13:52:57 GMT -5
Are you speaking on Ana behalf or yours? Because it's always about what you would like to happen. I'm always talking about what writers will try to do, not what i will like. We got the scene where Carlos asked Ana to marry him, and we know Carlos was there all this time at Ana side, and he is like the perfect man if you don't know what he did, he is handsome, loyal, in love, with a good job and wants the best for Ana and her son, he is also a psycho but, well, no one is perfect in this world . It's not like Ana doesn't love him, Ana is not going to love anyone else, and seriously, i don't understand from what basis you make the case for her looking for another love, no one is going to fill Alberto's void, this is a tale, and she is the princess, she has to be perfect and not Ana "Sex and the city" Ribera, she is boring, like any "good" lead, but perfect. They are not living in the store anymore, Marco kicked them out. That's why is weird that she is there when Alberto and Mateo arrive. By other images at the place it's like Ana may know about Alberto being alive, but she is still like doubting what she knows, expectant of who is the man with Mateo who looks like Alberto. I know it's not perfect, but you can't draw a lion connecting five dots, it's impossible it will look good. Also, MAS warned viewers are going to suffer a lot, and that implies a lot of misunderstandings between Alberto and Ana. The marriage with Carlos will put people over the edge, i can see writers going on with the marriage, so in that scene Carlos and her are already married, going full into tragedy territory before they turn 180º and we got the final we wish, Alberto and Ana forming a family. You are misunderstanding my posts if you think I am 'always' saying what I would like to see happen because that is incorrect. I mainly try to decipher from what we know and what's unrealistic. Of course, I would like certain things to happen, that's a part of what this board is for. The show is fairly formulaic so it's not that hard to figure out the general way things are going to unfold. You spoke many times about the assumption that religion and era will factor into many storylines, which clearly from the writing perspective, it hasn't. So you can't say you always look at things from a writing perspective and not your own. We got the A/C proposal scene, but she didn't exactly look happy when he asked. I personally don't think Carlos is perfect at all, besides the letters, based on S2 when she tried to break up with him. He's no prince, just creepy. The basis of looking for another love is based on Alberto being presumed dead and her not being in love with Carlos. She's a young woman, should she be a nun for the next 30 years? If she doesn't want anyone else, she should at least be alone for a while. Her character is supposed to be a modern woman (as modern as you can get in 1965) and her settling for Carlos will be a step back from how far she has come. I think Ana will still be living at the store for at least a little while based on the school bus picture. So, here's a question for you alfi, IF she goes through with a marriage to Carlos, how will she get out of it in 5-6 episodes? I ask because we saw how hard it was for Alberto to get the annulment. If she married Carlos, this viewer wouldn't want an A/A ending. That would convince me that sometimes love isn't enough to conquer bad timing and circumstance and some things aren't meant to be. It would actually be a sad, but a powerful ending and a little different than other shows in this genre. Of course, since they leaked the wedding pictures we know what happens at the end. There you go alfi, something else I would want, but won't get. That and Carlos and Cristina hitting the pavement hard and flat😀 Lara 🙏🏿Thank you 😊 you are wonderful with words and I agree with everything you just said to Alfi if you don't love someone you should not be with them out of loyalty Carlos is the one who offered his help to Ann that is another way of manipulating her so he can get back into her life if she did not love ❤️ him then why would the writers make her love him now she saw how he reacted when she broke up with him you don't man handy someone you love the way he did Ann
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Post by Camille on Sept 30, 2016 14:26:02 GMT -5
Well said Lara and Christine. Carlos is not perfect and he is no saint. Ana wouldn't be in the predicament she's in right now if Carlos hadn't manipulated Alberto's situation to his advantage so that Ana would fall in his favor. What Carlos did by withholding Alberto's true whereabouts from Ana is unforgivable. Ana should not feel obligated to this man. She kindly asked if he could help her find out what really happened to Alberto and all he did was help himself.
Alfi, you are right in that the writers like to do the unexpected, however, Lara is right in everything that she said. A/A have suffered long enough and so has the fans. They have kept A/A apart for 3 seasons, I really hope they appease us fans by not allowing a loveless marriage between A/C. If Ana learned nothing else from all her trials and tribulations with Alberto and Christina is that, it's a bad idea marry someone you do not love.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 14:34:30 GMT -5
You are misunderstanding my posts if you think I am 'always' saying what I would like to see happen because that is incorrect. I mainly try to decipher from what we know and what's unrealistic. Of course, I would like certain things to happen, that's a part of what this board is for. The show is fairly formulaic so it's not that hard to figure out the general way things are going to unfold. You spoke many times about the assumption that religion and era will factor into many storylines, which clearly from the writing perspective, it hasn't. So you can't say you always look at things from a writing perspective and not your own. Nope, that religion and era don't factor in the writing perspective is your opinion, it's not a fact, you can't build your arguments from that fallacy. When Alberto and Mateo did the striptease, with fully depilated gym bodies, listening a catchy english song, well, that was writers taking liberties with Spain's 50s to spice up the show, but when Ana was considered the lover of a married man, spanish socialites still abandoned the room when Raul presented herself as Philippe Ray, or when the police inquired Raul about his friend Toni it was with the intention of jailing him because homosexuality was forbidden, that's going with those times era. And yes, they diluted the fact that Spain was an ultra-catholic dictatorship (specially harsh in the 40s, prior the alliance with USA against the URSS), we are talking about executions and repression, but for this kind of love story going there is a big nope. Your wish, not based on Ana personality, actions, era nor any of the teasers they gave us. I never say Carlos is perfect, i say he looks perfect, few women will say no to a date with him if they didn't know him... and many women will still agree to a date knowing him. Nun for the next 30 years? that's real life, of course a woman has all the right to rebuild her life, i'm nobody to tell anyone how they should live their lives, but this is a romantic tale, and we are talking about Ana Ribera. Even Alberto having sex with other women didn't change the fact that the only woman he loved in his life was Ana, i think most people would not accept any of them falling in love with other men/women, and writers are also people . That's the first episode, and we know Marco will want to close the living area in Velvet, people will have to move, although it's a possibility that they are still living there. There is a jump in time again, there is a time difference because Ana's hair grows longer in the second wedding. If there was not consummation the marriage is not valid, i don't think they are going to get there though, i think Ana will discover everything prior the wedding.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 14:43:29 GMT -5
That's the first episode, and we know Marco will want to close the living area in Velvet, people will have to move, although it's a possibility that they are still living there. There is a jump in time again, there is a time difference because Ana's hair grows longer in the second wedding. If there was not consummation the marriage is not valid, i don't think they are going to get there though, i think Ana will discover everything prior the wedding. Wait... nope. When Rita is with her two kids they are not in Velvet, it looks like their own apartment based on windows position. Anyway we will know about that soon
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Post by Lara on Sept 30, 2016 15:00:23 GMT -5
Thank you so much and you're very welcome Camille and Christine😘😘😘
In all honesty, I have always felt the show has done a wonderful job of building up storylines, but the fall out has been underwhelming. Cristina and Alberto were together for 2 full seasons, but the actual reveal of the deal and Ana was probably a total of 2-3 minutes total scenes. Gerardo never even factored in which is crazy because he was the one who orchestrated the entire thing. I don't think it will be much different here. There will a lot of holes because they wrote themselves into a corner.
Yup, you're correct Christine, he totally manipulated the situation to his benefit. If he loved her, he would have given her all the facts to decide. He knew who she would choose, so not only did he chose to withhold information that Alberto was alive but he actively worked against her finding out. So he allowed this person to be distraught for years over losing the love of her life and denied her child the right to know his father. He is worse than Cristina! Ana should not marry him out of any kind of loyalty, it would make her look even more foolish. I still have a problem with her even allowing him back into her life.
Exactly Camille, A/C would be a repeat of A/C (Jeez, I never realized both couples have the same initials). I would hope Ana would have learned from the Alberto Cristina disaster and not repeat it. Plus, it would be too complicated for her to go through with it. Carlos is a terrible, terrible man and he would not make getting annulment easy if she decided to end it after the letter reveal. We don't have another season for them to deal with it, so I really don't have a clue how they would handle that. I think there is a possibility the short haired wedding is to Carlos, but I would be SHOCKED if she went through with it. Unless the writers want to alienate 95% of their audience and show how Ana has grown and learned nothing since season 1.
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Post by Lara on Sept 30, 2016 16:17:51 GMT -5
That is your opinion that it heavily factors in. The show definitely picks and chooses when it wants use the era/religion, but far more times they have disregarded the norms. For every abortion s/l or Toni/Raul, they've had 10 other s/l that would never happen. It was like nothing when Ana agreed to move in with Alberto, they also went to large public events when he was still legally married, most of the women had pre-martial sex, working women was not much of an issue, all these annulments and single mothers. A lot of things they've done would never fly back then, but it's a fictional tv show airing in 2016. The social stuff brings me back to the other point I made, underwhelming fall out. I thought social status would be a central part of the show, but they never explored it much after S1. I really thought in S2 we would see Alberto forced into Cristina's world of country clubs and society balls, but it never happened. I would have loved to have seen the fall out from the reveal that Cristina and Alberto were separated and definitely when it was revealed she was having an illegitimate child. Cristina's fall from grace is much more interesting than Ana's, who was never a part of that world. It's easier to turn your back on Ana because they never had much regard for her to begin with, Cristina is another story. That's your opinion or shall I say wish. I don't know why you keep making it out like everything you say is fact, but what I say is 'my wish.' I'm looking at the same things you are and we have a difference of opinion on how we view it. Your original point that I responded to was that Ana will marry Carlos. I have a different take on it. You're missing the entire point of the show if you are basing things on Ana's S1 personality and previous actions, era I won't even bother going into again. Ana will not be the same person, nor should she be. It's also your opinion that Carlos is perfect looking, which you are fully entitled too, I just don't share it. A man that was semi abusive in the past is not my idea of a catch. Who said anything about Ana falling in love with someone else anyway? We are saying she has a right to break free from Carlos and TRY and find someone that she might love or she can stay alone and find herself. Carlos pounced before she even had a chance to really mourn Alberto. Alberto didn't settle for Cristina even when he thought she was pregnant and he was no longer with Ana, so why should Ana settle for Carlos? That's different than what you originally said about her going through with marrying him. I think it's a possibility she will accept the proposal, I just don't think she'll go through with the wedding. Point is she'll probably still be living at the store when Alberto comes back. No idea about Rita and Pedro, they should be out already seeing that they have 2 kids. The show is coming soon so we'll be able to see how this will all unfold. I can't wait.
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Post by Christine on Sept 30, 2016 17:50:58 GMT -5
You are misunderstanding my posts if you think I am 'always' saying what I would like to see happen because that is incorrect. I mainly try to decipher from what we know and what's unrealistic. Of course, I would like certain things to happen, that's a part of what this board is for. The show is fairly formulaic so it's not that hard to figure out the general way things are going to unfold. You spoke many times about the assumption that religion and era will factor into many storylines, which clearly from the writing perspective, it hasn't. So you can't say you always look at things from a writing perspective and not your own. Nope, that religion and era don't factor in the writing perspective is your opinion, it's not a fact, you can't build your arguments from that fallacy. When Alberto and Mateo did the striptease, with fully depilated gym bodies, listening a catchy english song, well, that was writers taking liberties with Spain's 50s to spice up the show, but when Ana was considered the lover of a married man, spanish socialites still abandoned the room when Raul presented herself as Philippe Ray, or when the police inquired Raul about his friend Toni it was with the intention of jailing him because homosexuality was forbidden, that's going with those times era. And yes, they diluted the fact that Spain was an ultra-catholic dictatorship (specially harsh in the 40s, prior the alliance with USA against the URSS), we are talking about executions and repression, but for this kind of love story going there is a big nope. Your wish, not based on Ana personality, actions, era nor any of the teasers they gave us. I never say Carlos is perfect, i say he looks perfect, few women will say no to a date with him if they didn't know him... and many women will still agree to a date knowing him. Nun for the next 30 years? that's real life, of course a woman has all the right to rebuild her life, i'm nobody to tell anyone how they should live their lives, but this is a romantic tale, and we are talking about Ana Ribera. Even Alberto having sex with other women didn't change the fact that the only woman he loved in his life was Ana, i think most people would not accept any of them falling in love with other men/women, and writers are also people . That's the first episode, and we know Marco will want to close the living area in Velvet, people will have to move, although it's a possibility that they are still living there. There is a jump in time again, there is a time difference because Ana's hair grows longer in the second wedding. If there was not consummation the marriage is not valid, i don't think they are going to get there though, i think Ana will discover everything prior the wedding. [bra I don't know much about Spain or Spanish culture but in the sixties was it still okay to marry a man who if Alberto didn't stepped in and demand that Carlos let Ann go Carlos would have broken her arm and what responsibilities does the writers have to young women watching velvet lots of wrong things happened in the 40 50 60 that doesn't mean that they cannot write their story differently keeping in mind that there are young women and men watching and no women or man should marry anyone that physically abused you I doesn't matter how good looking or rich they are they weren't even in a relationship when he lost his temper can you imagine living with someone like that. I know what Alfi is going to say that the writers are doing this to make us 😡 but they could have gone the other way with the story let young people known that it is never okay to behavior the way Carlos did they could have wrote lines with Ann saying it to him the reason I can't marry you is because of you behavior towards me the time I broke up with you that is a story and a lesson that is good for everyone 😍
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 18:32:19 GMT -5
Yes, and opinions are not facts. Yes again, but not to the point you try to make. Ana agreed to move with Alberto in secret, she was in the event as his employee, because women had not pre-marital sex in the 50s? Ana with one man Alberto, Clara with 2 men, his boyfriend of several years Pedro and Mateo (3 with Marco), Rita one man, Pedro, and after the wedding, "Sex and the city" Velvet is not. Also, they are all in their late 30s, playing women in their late 20s when they should have been in their earlier 20s. That's a dissonance with their age and era you have to take in consideration. Many young women worked had to work in Spain in the 50s like my grandmother, helping the family economy or themselves before they got married. Annulments there was only one, and it was implied Alberto paid a lot of money to obtain it, we don't know about Mateo and Clara status, they are probably only separated. Single mothers? Blanca had to give her son in adoption. We still don't know how they are going to handle little Alberto and Cristina. Alberto's death changed everything. We don't know much about the circles Cristina frequented, the show never really went there, that need of seeing her humiliated is not healthy though. Wrong, i try to lucubrate how Ana is going to act taking in consideration everything from her education, the era, her personality, her relations with other men, her group of friends to other subtleties... these are the facts i base my opinion on, which is what she is going to do, these are not my wishes but my theories. You want her to move on, to change her personality, to "mature" in a way that will please you, so it's your wish. I want Ana to be happy with Alberto, that's a wish i think we all have. Again, i never say Carlos is perfect, he looks like a perfect catch, which is not the same. I said he is a psycho indeed, i understand why he acts like he does, but that doesn't change the fact that he is the antagonist and his motivations are those of a person who is not entirely sane. When did i oppose breaking free from Carlos? What I say is that Velvet is Ana and Alberto love story, and that story is going to develop in a way to make us viewers suffer (like the chance of Ana marrying Carlos) while also carrying us to their future happy life together. I was again lucubrating, pondering about possibilities and outcomes, just theories. Ana is now a wealthy woman, maybe she live with her uncle and her son in her own apartment. Yup!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 18:40:42 GMT -5
But they are doing that Christine, Carlos is the antagonist. It may look like i was joking when i said Carlos is a psycho, but he really acts like one, someone who you think is totally normal but he is not, in his twisted mind he surely thinks he is doing all on Ana behalf but for any normal person it's quite obvious he is not sane and he is causing a lot of damage.
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Post by carlucc on Sept 30, 2016 18:58:48 GMT -5
I thought this freeforum is for everyone to express their opinion or take on where this story is going. I have read with interest eveyone's postings. Some I'll say I totally like your perspective and others I am not too sure. But I would never come out and say you're wrong because we don't know yet. You have all made me go back to the previous episodes to take on another idea. I am much more comfortable reading the subtitles and can actually look at the acting itself. It is a beautiful series. Some of the replies to the postings have been nasty. I think everyone should just relax...Oct 5th is close for you. I will on the other hand will have to wait until 2017!!!
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Post by Christine on Sept 30, 2016 19:27:49 GMT -5
I thought this freeforum is for everyone to express their opinion or take on where this story is going. I have read with interest eveyone's postings. Some I'll say I totally like your perspective and others I am not too sure. But I would never come out and say you're wrong because we don't know yet. You have all made me go back to the previous episodes to take on another idea. I am much more comfortable reading the subtitles and can actually look at the acting itself. It is a beautiful series. Some of the replies to the postings have been nasty. I think everyone should just relax...Oct 5th is close for you. I will on the other hand will have to wait until 2017!!! I do not agree no one has been nasty in any of their posting we agree to disagree with each other and I don't think anyone takes any of this personally dont you start seeing things that are not there and it's ok for everyone to have an opinion whether or not you like keep the discussion come it's all good 😊 😍
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Post by Christine on Sept 30, 2016 19:42:13 GMT -5
But they are doing that Christine, Carlos is the antagonist. It may look like i was joking when i said Carlos is a psycho, but he really acts like one, someone who you think is totally normal but he is not, in his twisted mind he surely thinks he is doing all on Ana behalf but for any normal person it's quite obvious he is not sane and he is causing a lot of damage. Alfi I think you said that she is going to say yes to Carlos and that the reason why she changes her mind is because Alberto came back but the point I am trying to make is that the writers shouldn't have had her saying yes to him in the first place for the same reasons why Alberto didn't go back to Christina he never loved her and the second reason he physically abuse her why is it the writers keep pushing Carlos on to Ann is it because she is a woman
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Post by northboundtrain on Sept 30, 2016 20:08:11 GMT -5
Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, separate corners...not that things are out of hand, but there's a little bit of tension, so... Alfi, I noticed that a few posts ago you said it's always about what Lara wants to happen. This may be a translation/language issue on one or both or all of our parts, but that's what the board is for...just sharing thoughts on what we want to happen or what we don't want to happen (see my endless griping about Patricia and Enrique) based on what we see the characters doing. Lara's basing what she thinks about the wedding on what she thinks of Ana. You disagree because you have another take on Ana's character. All takes are fine, and nothing could or should be considered fact except what's already happened on screen. Both of you have good takes on the way religion/history has been used on the show. While it hasn't affected everything, it has affected some things. Last thing, and this goes for everyone: Keep in mind that we've got a bunch of posters from different countries not just posting but lurking quietly and reading posts. Language issues may come up -- both posters and lurkers may read things and take offense even if no offense was meant, which WOULD lead to things becoming heated even if neither party intended that from the beginning. It's impossible to avoid all misunderstandings of tone and word choice, which I get -- just try to be as respectful of other points of view as possible and the problems and potential misunderstandings will be minimized. End of PSA. Back to your regularly scheduled speculation over Velvet.
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Post by Christine on Sept 30, 2016 20:21:21 GMT -5
Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, separate corners...not that things are out of hand, but there's a little bit of tension, so... Alfi, I noticed that a few posts ago you said it's always about what Lara wants to happen. This may be a translation/language issue on one or both or all of our parts, but that's what the board is for...just sharing thoughts on what we want to happen or what we don't want to happen (see my endless griping about Patricia and Enrique) based on what we see the characters doing. Lara's basing what she thinks about the wedding on what she thinks of Ana. You disagree because you have another take on Ana's character. All takes are fine, and nothing could or should be considered fact except what's already happened on screen. Both of you have good takes on the way religion/history has been used on the show. While it hasn't affected everything, it has affected some things. Last thing, and this goes for everyone: Keep in mind that we've got a bunch of posters from different countries not just posting but lurking quietly and reading posts. Language issues may come up -- both posters and lurkers may read things and take offense even if no offense was meant, which WOULD lead to things becoming heated even if neither party intended that from the beginning. It's impossible to avoid all misunderstandings of tone and word choice, which I get -- just try to be as respectful of other points of view as possible and the problems and potential misunderstandings will be minimized. End of PSA. Back to your regularly scheduled speculation over Velvet. thanks northbound 👌You the voice of reason by the way did anyone saw mas in my city New York 🇺🇸🍰I would love ❤️ to take that man 👄😍like I am talking holy communion
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Post by Lara on Sept 30, 2016 20:27:41 GMT -5
On that, we agree. Your post read like you were being factual. We'll just leave it at both of us are giving our respective opinions. Living secretly was never mentioned. I don't think that is something that could be hidden. As far as being at the event as employee, I always side eyed that. He took her to prominent events, tongues would be wagging🐶 about why Ana was always with him and where Cristina was. He even tried to hold her hand at one of them and was about to publically thank her as the woman of his life before Cristina stormed the stage. He didn't care at that point who knew, which was ultimately his downfall. I honestly don't know what went on sexually speaking in the 1950s, but the way you make it sound in Spain with the era and religion, women waited until marriage much like Rita. As far as working, once they got married I think women were expected to stay home with the kids. That's how it was in the US. I think Mad Men did a great job of really capturing the times back then for women. Certainly Cristina wouldn't be handed the reigns so easily as she was with the Jewelry. We'll have to see on the rest of those annulments go. Blanca gave her son up because she couldn't raise him and work, didn't sound like it was because of any social implications. Yes, unmarried single women was a taboo back then, but that wasn't such a major issue on the show. Let's see how the issue is handled with Cristina and Ana. Cristina really didn't pay much for any of what she did, at least on camera. It's not a need to see her humiliated, though she needs to be, it's about the foundation of the show and it not following through. A huge part of her character was about appearances and social standing. It's part of what made Alberto marry her and why she discounted Ana as a threat. So it is very suspect when we get to see NO consequences for Cristina socially except for Raul walking away. They dropped the ball completely, they should have kept her bitchy cousin from S1 on. I had a wise ass retort about the health comment that I chose to delete. I don't want to bring this down to an even lower, personal level. I am really not following you alfi, to be totally honest. I am doing the same thing, I express what I want to see happen and what I think will happen. You present your thoughts as facts. I don't think Ana will marry Carlos, you do. I have one opinion, you have another. Are either facts or wishes? No. Do I want her to be happy with Alberto? Of course. My thing about moving on is before Alberto gets back and it's moving on from Carlos. That is something I wish for. My opinion of what will happen... She will stay with Carlos, possibly accept his proposal, until Alberto comes back. Two different things. You did in an earlier post, but whatever. On paper, he does seem perfect to s person with no history with him, but Ana should have known better as we the viewers do. Something else we have differing opinions on, I don't see any justification for his actions. None. It is an Ana and Alberto love story, but they aren't showing us enough of it. This push and pull has gone on for 3 seasons, how much more can they make us suffer? I think if things unfold badly in S4, I would question the love conquers all cliche with these shows. Since they've been separated so much it would be nice (here's a wish part) if she developed more into a truly independent woman without a man crutch. I absolutely want A/A together at the end, but the writers insist on keeping them apart, that and MAS schedule, so why not do something meaningful with her character? It will certainly be interesting😆
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